Will Rafa win the league with Liverpool?

[Revo]

I'm more red nose than brown nose right now because of a cold. Someone will surely point out that it fits my username.

lots of fluids and plenty of sleep, you`ll be alright

[AFII]

lots of fluids and plenty of sleep, you`ll be alright

[Revo]

Just trying to make things a bit clearer for you, either way worked really but I know given your age the simpler is really the better isn't it?

you should be ashamed of yourself engaging in the hijacking of threads, aled and paul did tell you it was only a probationary position for you right?

[MrMichael]

[/B]


you should be ashamed of yourself engaging in the hijacking of threads, aled and paul did tell you it was only a probationary position for you right?

You should be ashamed of yourself resorting to such lame comebacks; Aled and Paul know full well who's really in charge now, and come to think of it, so should you 'n' all, so stfu before I get serious.......

Anyway, this thread had descended into a pile of personal abuse and general bull****, hijacking it hardly constitutes a major crime against rational debate. Anyway, I'm bored now, got a plane to catch at 7am, bedtime......

[Kaip]

awwwwwwwwww blessssssssssss

[Revo]

You should be ashamed of yourself resorting to such lame comebacks; Aled and Paul know full well who's really in charge now, and come to think of it, so should you 'n' all, so stfu before I get serious.......

Anyway, this thread had descended into a pile of personal abuse and general bull****, hijacking it hardly constitutes a major crime against rational debate.

its not aled and paul you need to worry about. its this new owner michael. word on the net is your gonna be ****ed off faster than dunk went to spain . i welcome seeing you serious

[Craig_H]

And he's already got 82 points with Liverpool, so I fail to see your point ...





I know every fan of every club will say the same thing, that the media is out to get them. But how much criticism did Fergie get for resting Ronaldo at Bolton, where they duly lost, compared to the criticism Rafa got for resting Torres v Brum etc? It is clear that we are on occasion treated differently by the press, people like Fergie are above criticism from the media for whatever reason (probably cos he has them running scared) while Rafa seems fair game.

And the 82 points isnt enough to win the PL, any more so than the 75 and 77 points are.

The point is that in La Liga, you can maybe afford to be more conservative because if you're not needing close to 90 points, you can afford to sit on a 1-1 draw rather than taking the risk to go and win the game. This suits Rafa's more cautious approach. Unfortunately it's different in our league.

As for Ferguson and not getting criticism - i think it's got less to do with anyone 'running scared' and more to do with 8 Premiership titles in 12 years, or whatever he's won. He's earnt the right not to be criticised by being the english league's 2nd most successful manager of all time.

[Dhav]

And the 82 points isnt enough to win the PL, any more so than the 75 and 77 points are.

The point is that in La Liga, you can maybe afford to be more conservative because if you're not needing close to 90 points, you can afford to sit on a 1-1 draw rather than taking the risk to go and win the game. This suits Rafa's more cautious approach. Unfortunately it's different in our league.

As for Ferguson and not getting criticism - i think it's got less to do with anyone 'running scared' and more to do with 8 Premiership titles in 12 years, or whatever he's won. He's earnt the right not to be criticised by being the english league's 2nd most successful manager of all time.

You may have a point re the differences in La Liga vis-a-vis the Premiership. If you are hinting that we need to be less cautious and go for teams more to try and secure victories in league matches then I agree with you. I tend to think we are often too cagey and too "tactical" (if that makes sense) - the Premier League is perhaps not the sophisticated competition that CL and La Liga are and Rafa too often gives it too much respect. Sometimes you just need to steamroller teams, attack teams down the flankss and pepper the box with crosses instead of playing these funky formations that patterns of play that Rafa likes to experiment with. Rafa tends to overthink things. This is just my impression mind you - I could well be wrong.

Re the 82 points, I agree that tally won't win the league, but we don't know how many more pts than 82 will be necessary, but I don't think it will be much more. My guess is around 87 will win it. I'm sure currently we have more points than the equivalent stage of that season, so there is no reason why we can't exceed 82 pts this season.

As for Ferguson, just because he has won so many titles or whatever does not make his decisions any more right or wrong than Rafa's. Rafa has been a manager for far less time than Fergie, and he's won one of Europe's top leagues twice and already achieved more in European competitions than Fergie has. An impressive CV in anyone's book. But of course, the journos and internet posters know better than a CL winning manager. :whatever:

[Craig_H]

They dont know better than him, but they're entitled to opinions and furthermore, if he didnt drop silly points too frequently, they'd have nothing to criticise him about.

It's no coincidence that he gets more flak than Mourinho got, than Wenger and ferguson, because he's the only one of the 'big four' not to win the english league and you can argue the semantics of that (time, money spent etc) all day long, there'll be rights and wrongs in those arguments.

But in black and white, he hasnt won it and is therefore under more pressure than the others.

I dont buy any so called media bias or vendettas, they'll pick a weakness or a point to crucify someone on, and go to town. Fact is, Rafa's got more obvious things to pick at than the others do, and certainly more than Ferguson (as the reigning Premiership Champion manager) does.

[Dhav]

They dont know better than him, but they're entitled to opinions and furthermore, if he didnt drop silly points too frequently, they'd have nothing to criticise him about.

It's no coincidence that he gets more flak than Mourinho got, than Wenger and ferguson, because he's the only one of the 'big four' not to win the english league and you can argue the semantics of that (time, money spent etc) all day long, there'll be rights and wrongs in those arguments.

But in black and white, he hasnt won it and is therefore under more pressure than the others.

I dont buy any so called media bias or vendettas, they'll pick a weakness or a point to crucify someone on, and go to town. Fact is, Rafa's got more obvious things to pick at than the others do, and certainly more than Ferguson (as the reigning Premiership Champion manager) does.

The fact Rafa has not won the league has nothing to do with the fact he attracts the most media criticism IMO. Your past record has no bearing on whether a decision you have made is correct or not. It's why criminals' past records are not disclosed in trials or have a bearing on determining a person's guilt or innocence. Success is all relative, and of the big four he is the one who has had the least tools at his disposal to try and win the league.

Rafa is probably one of the least media friendly managers in the league given his shyness and somewhat limited English, certainly compared to the other big 4. No coincidence IMO. He's an easy target, esp as the press have this rotation stick that they can use to beat him with.

It surprises me how little criticism people like Harry Redknapp get in the media [despite all the scandal and accusation aimed in his direction] or Martin O'Neill. But they're media darlings.

[Craig_H]

The fact Rafa has not won the league has nothing to do with the fact he attracts the most media criticism IMO. Your past record has no bearing on whether a decision you have made is correct or not. It's why criminals' past records are not disclosed in trials or have a bearing on determining a person's guilt or innocence. Success is all relative, and of the big four he is the one who has had the least tools at his disposal to try and win the league.

Rafa is probably one of the least media friendly managers in the league given his shyness and somewhat limited English, certainly compared to the other big 4. No coincidence IMO. He's an easy target, esp as the press have this rotation stick that they can use to beat him with.

It surprises me how little criticism people like Harry Redknapp get in the media [despite all the scandal and accusation aimed in his direction] or Martin O'Neill. But they're media darlings.

I think you're firmly reeled in mate.

Firstly, the criminals point is so bizarre, that i'm not even sure if you were messing around by making it. I've tried to find some kind of relevance, but i'm at a loss.

As for being media friendly, i doubt ferguson could be described as that. But he was your example as a comparison to use. I stand by the point that Fergie's perceived lack of press criticism is largely due to the fact that he's proven without a shadow of a doubt that he knows what he's doing and his record is unquestionable.

[Skillz]

I think you're firmly reeled in mate.

Firstly, the criminals point is so bizarre, that i'm not even sure if you were messing around by making it. I've tried to find some kind of relevance, but i'm at a loss.

As for being media friendly, i doubt ferguson could be described as that. But he was your example as a comparison to use. I stand by the point that Fergie's perceived lack of press criticism is largely due to the fact that he's proven without a shadow of a doubt that he knows what he's doing and his record is unquestionable.

Did he get the same media attention at Old Trafford that Rafa has received in his first 3 and a half years?

PS Did Fergie win an FA Cup and a European Champion's League in the same time?

[MrMichael]

Did he get the same media attention at Old Trafford that Rafa has received in his first 3 and a half years?

PS Did Fergie win an FA Cup and a European Champion's League in the same time?

Football was very different back then. Sky was only the thing you see when you look up.

[Craig_H]

Did he get the same media attention at Old Trafford that Rafa has received in his first 3 and a half years?

PS Did Fergie win an FA Cup and a European Champion's League in the same time?

Bit silly there mate, the media was a completely different animal in those days, compared to now.

As for fergie and FA Cups/Champions Leagues...no he didnt, but he's gone on to become the 2nd most successful manager ever.

Which bit is the more relevant to focus on do you think? I'll give you a clue, it's a no brainer.

[Craig_H]

Football was very different back then. Sky was only the thing you see when you look up.

Spot on. We're dealing with completely different eras.