Xabi Alonso and our lack of goals

[CAD]

Xabi's importance in our play is very much like Ronnie Whelans was during the mid / late 80's. He makes interceptions based on positional play, he picks the ball up off the back four and builds our moves, he switches the play better than anyone we have on our books and he sets our rhythm and tempo.

You of course are right that his assists and goal stats are poor but then so where Whelans, however I still remember an interview in the Echo circa 1988 or 89 in which John Barnes was asked who was the best player / most important player at the club was and he unequivocally answered Ronnie Whelan because he was the major cog in the engine and someone who gave the ball to Barnes early which allowed him a little more time and space, essentially without him the team as a whole didnt function as well

I see Alonso's influence on our team and play in a similar vein to Ronnies and thats one of the reasons why when many on here said we should cash in on him because we have Mascherano that I argued the importance of having both

Well, I agree. Xabi is an important player. But that's not what is up for debate here.

The issue at hand is whether the sun rises out of Alonso's ass and slowly moves high above Anfield, only to pop up his backside when the game is over.

I saying that it doesn't.

The keyplayer and biggest culprit when it comes the the current lack of form, is Gerrard. He has simply been abysmal since the injury. If he can't get the engine going for us this season, then none of us is going to any finals. Forget about it. I can't even begin to remember the last time I saw him play this badly for 5 games in a row.

With or without Alonso? I really doubt that it would have made any diff given Gerrards form. You could play Makelele at his best or whatever, it still wouldn't have changed anything.

That's my take on it.

[fred_plasticine]

There are some extremely debateable points in your above post

Best passer Gerrard, there are many many people who would argue that (including Gerrard himself probably)

Better tackler, well if you look at the stats over the last couple of years no player has attempted more tackles than Alonso and nobody has a better success rate of tackles won than him also. Gerrard is a full blooded tackler who hits players harder but that doesnt necessarily qualify you as the best tackler

Of coursde attacking wise Gerrard is the best player no arguments from me on that one

Regarding Alonso or Gerrard in the defensive role its a no contest. Alonso is far more intelligent and disciplined than Gerrard will ever be, he shuts down opposition attacks by positional play alone. Gerrard also vacates the midfield space too often leaving gaps behind him (of course thats beneficial attacking wise but not defensively)

it's not a question of who's the better player between the two of them. the offer different qualities. and xabi's qualities are what we are missing at the moment especially with gerrard being off form. we can only hope that xabi will be back to his best when he returns. fingers crossed, they all will.

[Lecter]

Well, I agree. Xabi is an important player. But that's not what is up for debate here.

The issue at hand is whether the sun rises out of Alonso's ass and slowly moves high above Anfield, only to pop up his backside when the game is over.

I saying that it doesn't.

The keyplayer and biggest culprit when it comes the the current lack of form, is Gerrard. He has simply been abysmal since the injury. If he can't get the engine going for us this season, then none of us is going to any finals. Forget about it. I can't even begin to remember the last time I saw him play this badly for 5 games in a row.

With or without Alonso? I really doubt that it would have made any diff given Gerrards form. You could play Makelele at his best or whatever, it still wouldn't have changed anything.

That's my take on it.

Think Gerrards form has had an effect but that only compounds other issues further imo

[Dhav]

right on cue....

It's only when someone is out of the team that people forget how poor they were playing before - hence the excitement of kewell's return. As good a player Xabi has shown to be, early in his LFC career, gerrard is 10 times the player in every aspect. Let's not witchhunt our best player because the whole team is playing badly. If you really think alonso's return, bearing in mind he's been poor for well over a year, is going to make us start playing well again then you;re seriously deluded.

BTW - you're an arrogant idiot if you can't respect people's opinions and call them unknowledgeable just because they differ from your own.

Yeah, well here's me being an arrogant idiot:- you're an unknowledgeable clown and you can **** right off and take your androgyny fetish with you.

[CAD]

Think Gerrards form has had an effect but that only compounds other issues further imo

Meaning you want him at RM?

[tomasjj]

Yeah, well here's me being an arrogant idiot:- you're an unknowledgeable clown and you can **** right off and take your androgyny fetish with you.

[kubrickscube]

I agree with whoever said it before - I do prefer Gerrard on the right- but not as an orthodox right winger. It was no coincidence that he scored so many in the past when he was used more as a creative player and given more of a free role, with Alonso and Mascher in the middle, taking care of general business. Mascher doing all the chasing and tackling, and Alonso staying put in the centre, controlling possession. That system might suit Babel too, because there is a player itching to get away from the touchline and pop up in difficult to defend places.

I think where our team has looked good previously is the balance of certain players that cover their own weaknesses and play to their strengths. Although Arbeloa is arguably a better defender, Riise as a left back gives you the benefits of an attacking wing back, which helps disguise the fact we don't have a world class left winger. And with the subtly mobile Agger on the field, the big gaps Riise leaves behind him aren't as much of a problem. So it's clear just how damaging losing Alonso and Agger has been. It's a case of pairing the right players together, rather than picking the best team. Alonso mightn't be as good a player as Gerrard, but he might be a better foil for Mascher, and might bring the best out of Gerrard.

[Lecter]

Meaning you want him at RM?

What I do or do not want is immaterial

By that I mean lets just say that the pro-Alonso arguments are accurate and that we function better as a team with him in it

If Alonso isnt in it then you are absolutely relying on individual brilliance to win games (more often than not in the past supplied by Gerrard)

Gerrard being off form only compounds the issue of Alonso being missing ie we arent functioning as a team and one of our major match winners / individual players is off form

[bazza76]

I dont think he would have

When Gerrard played centrally early in his career he had Hamann to do the disciplined work, then Alonso and now Mascherano

Gerrard is an attacking midfielder (always has been in my opinion) very much in the mold of Steve McMahon and to compliment that type of player you need someone who has the brains / discipline to know when to hold

Neither Gerrard nor McMahon have / had the nous to do that

I base this on his passing ability, his tackling (which Xabi has only learned to do) and the fact that he is a born and bred scouser. Not that I am saying, Xabi lacks passion as such. I think Gerrard could have been a player in the Souness mould.

[carheex]

Yeah, well here's me being an arrogant idiot:- you're an unknowledgeable clown and you can **** right off and take your androgyny fetish with you.

I underestimated your debating powers.....

[Lecter]

I base this on his passing ability, his tackling (which Xabi has only learned to do) and the fact that he is a born and bred scouser. Not that I am saying, Xabi lacks passion as such. I think Gerrard could have been a player in the Souness mould.

The thing is Xabi and Souness have / had what Rafa would call "game intelligence", I think Gerrard is lacking in that department

That for me is one of the things that is the difference between being a good defensive player or not

Look at Makalele, Hamann, Whelan, Souness, Keane they all had that positional sense or knowledge / game intelligence whatever you want to call it

Gerrard has the aggression and pace and power but I dont think he has nor ever would have that defensive positional sense

[CAD]

By that I mean lets just say that the pro-Alonso arguments are accurate and that we function better as a team with him in it

If Alonso isnt in it then you are absolutely relying on individual brilliance to win games (more often than not in the past supplied by Gerrard)

Gerrard being off form only compounds the issue of Alonso being missing ie we arent functioning as a team and one of our major match winners / individual players is off form

It's about balance. Sometimes Mascher will be just what we need at HM. At other times Alonso will be the key. Individual brilliance in a team that functions would be nice. That can most certainly be accomplished without Alonso in some games.

Nuances - a whiter shade of grey. Nothing is black or white.

[El Jefecito]

I base this on his passing ability, his tackling (which Xabi has only learned to do) and the fact that he is a born and bred scouser. Not that I am saying, Xabi lacks passion as such. I think Gerrard could have been a player in the Souness mould.

Today, Xabi is closer to being in the Souness mould. When all is said and done, Stevie is smart enough to be anything other than an impact player.

I remember one time, a season or two ago when he swung the ball to the right for a counter attack down the wing. There was no-one there he was the right winger. He looked dead confused

[CAD]

I agree with whoever said it before - I do prefer Gerrard on the right- but not as an orthodox right winger. It was no coincidence that he scored so many in the past

The old school rubish again.

Gerrard scored 5 goals as a 2nd striker. 6 as a RM and 13 as CM in his 23 goals season.

[Lecter]

It's about balance. Sometimes Mascher will be just what we need at HM. At other times Alonso will be the key. Individual brilliance in a team that functions would be nice. That can most certainly be accomplished without Alonso in some games.

Nuances - a whiter shade of grey. Nothing is black or white.

Wouldnt argue too much with that

I'd also add that sometime for the sake of balance and a team that functions Gerrard might have to play on the right (but only "sometimes")