Kuyt....

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I posted this in another thread but stats can be manipulated to make any player look as good or as bad as you like. Here are Bergkamps stats for the last 7 years he was at Arsenal ;

Season Club Games Goals Strike rate
2005-06 Arsenal 24 2 0.08
2004-05 Arsenal 29 8 0.28
2003-04 Arsenal 28 4 0.14
2002-03 Arsenal 29 4 0.14
2001-02 Arsenal 33 9 0.27
2000-01 Arsenal 25 3 0.12
1999-00 Arsenal 28 6 0.21

Does this mean that he was **** as he was a forward who didn't score a lot of goals? No of course it doesn't because he was an amazing footballer who brought an awful lot more to the team than simply scoring goals.

Kuyt isn't in great form at the moment but very few of our players are but that doesn't mean he isn't a good player. He has scored 5 goals in 14 appearances for us this season and works very well with Torres who was brought in as our number 1 striker and goal threat.

I know I'm fighting a losing battle on here because people have already made there mind up but give the lad a break and judge him at the end of the season.

I just cannot believe what I'm reading.

Are you honestly comparing Bergkamp to Kuyt?

Dennis Bergkamp is one of the most gifted techncal players I've ever seen.

Prolific goalscorer he wasn't. But you watch him and you saw vision, subtle touches, awareness of others and incisive passing. Plus clincial finishing when he was in position to.

Kuyt is the complete antithesis of Bergkamp.

If he's considered good enough, by Rafa, to be link between our lone front man and our midfield then we're in trouble. But I'll give Rafa more credit than that I honestly don't think that's the case.

[Sir Bob]

The question you have to ask about all our players is that player as good as we can get for that position given the resources we have available.

In my view, for £10m Kuyt isn't the player we need. We all know his attributes but as much as I like him, he just isn't good enough. I really don't see how he will play a major part in securing a league title. This isn't based just on his current form but his form since he joined LFC.

[dww]

The question you have to ask about all our players is that player as good as we can get for that position given the resources we have available.

In my view, for £10m Kuyt isn't the player we need. We all know his attributes but as much as I like him, he just isn't good enough. I really don't see how he will play a major part in securing a league title. This isn't based just on his current form but his form since he joined LFC.

My problem is more in the blend of attacking players we put out. I think all of them are capable of doing a certain role to the required standard. However they don't complement one another at the minute. For example I think Kuyt would be very good for a team where a lot of midfielders joined in the box but when he plays at the minute he becomes too isolated.

Obviously one way out is to buy a whole new set of players in. However I think we have the potential of making what we have work or at least improve significantly as a unit so we can make a better decision of who to cull. Part of the problem has been that the key creative influences are all new and we have only rarely controlled games this season in the way we have when at our best in recent years. I think we will see an improvement between now and January.

If not I think we will have to sign at least one experienced, intelligent attacking player. Even if this will inevitably need time to bed in.

[Lee]

I'm gobsmacked at Bergkamp's record.

I knew he wasn't prolific, but those stats are shocking.

Still, a quality, quality player.

[red g]

The question you have to ask about all our players is that player as good as we can get for that position given the resources we have available.

In my view, for £10m Kuyt isn't the player we need. We all know his attributes but as much as I like him, he just isn't good enough. I really don't see how he will play a major part in securing a league title. This isn't based just on his current form but his form since he joined LFC.

I am struggling to think of a worse striker than Kuyt in the premiership......

[Gazzla]

I just cannot believe what I'm reading.

Are you honestly comparing Bergkamp to Kuyt?

Dennis Bergkamp is one of the most gifted techncal players I've ever seen.

No I'm not comparing Kuyt to Bergkamp and you've completely missed the point of my post, I'm using Bergkamp as an example of how pure goalscoring stats can be totally misleading when judging a players ability and what they bring to a team.

[JPK]

I'm gobsmacked at Bergkamp's record.

I knew he wasn't prolific, but those stats are shocking.

Still, a quality, quality player.

If his assists were on it then you would not be.
He like Niall said,he was on a different level.
Bergkamp was one of the most influencial players in a team who won a lot.
Kuyt has won nothing with us and probably wont.

[Gazzla]

I am struggling to think of a worse striker than Kuyt in the premiership......

Keep it serious, you'd much rather have the likes of Marcus Bent or Steve Howard up front would you?

You may not like Kuyt but that's quite a stupid comment.

[JPK]

I am struggling to think of a worse striker than Kuyt in the premiership......

Kuyt would be better under a different manager I feel as will Crouch.
Rafa has played Kuyt on the both wings and up front alone and behind the front man.When he first came he was very lively and always shot on sight.
Rafa has confused the guy just like the rest of the team.

[Lee]

If his assists were on it then you would not be.
He like Niall said,he was on a different level.
Bergkamp was one of the most influencial players in a team who won a lot.
Kuyt has won nothing with us and probably wont.

No, I'm fully aware of how many assists Bergkamp had and what a great player he was.

I didn't realise that his goalscoring record was that low. It does however show that stats can be vastly misleading sometimes

[Gazzla]

I didn't realise that his goalscoring record was that low. It does however show that stats can be vastly misleading sometimes

Thankyou mate, at least it shows that one person has grasped what I was trying to point out.

[JPK]

No, I'm fully aware of how many assists Bergkamp had and what a great player he was.

I didn't realise that his goalscoring record was that low. It does however show that stats can be vastly misleading sometimes

That's for sure.Pires and Ljunberg and Overmars and Parlour we getting alot of goals in the teams he played in and so were Wright,Henry and Anelka and he was the link man so goals was no big issue with him.

When Torres is out we dont have another top striker and our wingers love to pass back to the fullback and dont score alot.

[red g]

Keep it serious, you'd much rather have the likes of Marcus Bent or Steve Howard up front would you?

You may not like Kuyt but that's quite a stupid comment.

ok you got me on those two..... but i really cant think of to many others, i would take people like forsell before kuyt, any of the 4 from tottenham, blackburns 2, all 4 of arsenals,chelseas, evertons and scums, west hams 2 maybe 3,readings 2,sunderlands 2, newcastles 3

need i go on? probably missed a few there as well. i think you would struggle to name 10 worse strikers in the premier league......

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

No I'm not comparing Kuyt to Bergkamp and you've completely missed the point of my post, I'm using Bergkamp as an example of how pure goalscoring stats can be totally misleading when judging a players ability and what they bring to a team.

I'm not judging him on his goals though.

To be honest he's scored about 1 every 4 games which is what I expected from him.

What I really don't like though is the rest of his game, actually include his finishing in that, he just isn't clinical either.

Poor technical player, slow, not dominant in the air, and inaccurate passing is what we paid £10m quid for.

Actually it's scary if you think about it. That Rafa thought he was good enough and then paid £10m for him.

[Gazzla]

need i go on? probably missed a few there as well. i think you would struggle to name 10 worse strikers in the premier league......

Steve Howard
Marcus Bent
Mido
Samaras
Shefki Kuqi
Brian McBride
Kevin Davies
Michael Chopra
David Connolly
John Carew
and lets have one of our own in there as well...Voronin