Fans gone mad?

[Craig_H]

I disagree with that.

Look at United at the start of the season without Rooney and Ronaldo they were very poor and couldn't buy a goal. Now they are back they are flying.

They were still grinding out win after win.

I really couldn't give a **** what style of football we play just as long as it's winning football.

But it's not is it? It's 'drawing' football.

[The Glove]

'Always with the negative waves DJS. Have a little faith baby, have a little faith.'

[Craig_H]

It's quite obvious.

1. Persisting with Kuyt.

2. Persisting with Voronin.

3. Ignoring Crouch who would create more than the other 2 combined.

4. Paying too much attention to the opposition rather than concertrating on our own strengths. EG: Trying to Nullify B'Burn with defensive players instead of going out to do them. We saw evidence when we eventually brought on Kewell and Crouch that this would have been the way to go from the start.

5. underestimating opposition when we play home hence benching our best players.

[desertscouser]

Aye, our football at the moment is dire. I expect that to change when Xabi, Agger and Torres return.
Some games after their return, our play should start clicking and our form pick up even another notch.

I hope you and the likes of Speedy are right because there isn't a Liverpool fan on these forums who wouldn't want Rafa to lift no 19.

[Craig_H]

Rafa's made mistakes, hands up all those who don't make mistakes in their jobs/life. Hands up all those who when they do make mistakes have the media scrutinising every move? It's very easy to dissect a match and point out were it all went wrong after the match has been played, so easy that everyone on here can do it.

I have yet to see anyone make a reasonable suggestion about who would replace Rafa and until someone comes up with that reasonable suggestion, I'll stick with the manager we've got thanks.

By the same token though, hands up who gets paid £4m a year...

I dont think Rafa should be sacked, but he DOES need to admit that certain ideas arent working, and adjust them slightly.

As for dissecting after the game, i dont disagree with that point generally...but i said prior to KO at blackburn that Crouch should've started ahead of Kuyt, so that one doesnt apply to me in this particular case

[Craig_H]

Just pointing out that Voronin was free.

And you pose a good plan. But we dont know if your plan would have worked.
Rafa without a doubt considered you plan, but decided that getting Voronin in for free was a better plan. And I´m sure Rafa had a bit more information to go on then you.

Rafa has more information on all things LFC than any of us, by virtue of his position.

So by your logic, he's beyond question in everything he does.

That is obviously silly.

[El Jefecito]

Well I'd definitely agree with you there

After my 28 hr bender starting in the pub on Saturday watching the reds till yesterday evening I would rather change my name to Gary Neville than go near any Captain Morgan this evening.

[Craig_H]

I´m just saying you seem to see things very much in black and white. He is with the players in training every day. He clearly feels it is best for the club at this moment to stick with Kuyt and sometimes Voronin. And because we dont know everything he knows, simply because we are not in a position to, it is rather rash to dismiss Rafas decisions as clearly wrong.

It's also rash to assume that because Rafa is with the players in training, every time he makes a decision, it is correct. And of course it isnt, nobody makes the right decision all the time. No one could ask for that.

But when the SAME wrong decisions keep being made, then you have to ask questions.

And whether he sees them in training or not, our position, poor results and poor form suggest that he IS making wrong decisions on a regular basis.

I'd like to know at what point the RCDNWers WOULD blame Rafa.

[Craig_H]

Nothing about being right or wrong. Its giving an opinion into things and then having others tell you you're wrong. Some of the things he says are quite spot on. I know nobody wants to see that said cause everything is 100% roses and we cheer for the team and players blahblah.

One thing he said was Sissoko shouldnt be used. I totally agree with this as do alot of others. Reason is he CANT pass to save his life, and when a team, not a player but a TEAM is in a slump, you try not to play the players who are having a torrid time every game. His passing problem isnt new. Its been around since he joined. We have plenty of options to use, LUCAS for example. Theres no way someones going to tell me Lucas is crap. Everytime he comes on he does well, and right now our midfield are having trouble passing the ball. Lucas would definately fix this alot better then what Sissoko could do.

Thats one point I agree with him on. Instead I see people taking the mick. Disgusting. You can support a team to a certain extent. People should get off their high horses because we are all fans of the same team. You arent considered a better fan just because you find no fault with anything. Thats not directed at anyone specifically, just on a whole. This place has turned into school yard bickering where noone wants to listen to something they dont like.

Superb post.

I sometimes think that if Rafa took off Reina with 10 mins to go and put Voronin in goal, people would applaud it as another masterstroke.

You cant possibly even suggest that he's ever in the wrong with some people. It's madness.

[Red_hot]

I don't think I can stand many more of these threads. There must be about 5/6 all with the same theme. I've tried merging some but it's a nightmare!!

Aaarrrgh. I'm off to Bedfordshire. Mr M will sort it out....

[Craig_H]

Complete and utter bull****, no offence. Are you suggesting that before the players leave the dressing room around kick off time, Rafa's pulls them back and says, "hang on lads, i know you've got your instructions and had your pep talk for the game ahead but we must check the est1892 forum first for any last minute advice and inspiration"? and then presumably, when there's some negative stuff, rafa has a sulk and all the players go out and play **** because they've been offended at Rashid's analysis of the previous match?? Give them some credit FFS!
If there's one place that the fans should be able to vent spleen it's on a forum like this. Better to get the anger out here than at the game.

I agree mate. Every single one of us support the lads when we're there at the game. I've been to matches with many reds on these forums (some of who are critical of the team at the moment - like myself) and all of them are as vocal in their support as those who weirdly refuse to find fault with anything to do with LFC.

I don't want Rafa sacked now...only a fool would want him gone tomorrow but I see absolutely f*ck all wrong with being critical of the players and manager on an internet forum, especially when in my opinion some of the criticism is justified.

I'll gladly deck anyone here who ever tells me I'm no fan because I'm critical of a performance by a player or the team in general

[einar]

It's also rash to assume that because Rafa is with the players in training, every time he makes a decision, it is correct. And of course it isnt, nobody makes the right decision all the time. No one could ask for that.

But when the SAME wrong decisions keep being made, then you have to ask questions.

And whether he sees them in training or not, our position, poor results and poor form suggest that he IS making wrong decisions on a regular basis.

I'd like to know at what point the RCDNWers WOULD blame Rafa.

To many assumptions mate. We dont know what the reason is for the dip in form, and no one gets every decision right or wrong. So you cant say that "the SAME wrong decisions keep being made" now can you. Two can play this game you know.

[Craig_H]

Evening Armchair kopite - I've got 2 early christmas presents for you:

Here's the first - ",". It's a comma - don't worry about wearing it out.
Here's the second - " ' ". You can call it an apostrophe if you like. As with my first gift, don't worry about using it whenever you see an opportunity as it won't run out.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

Love how he was trying to delete his posts after you'd already quoted them

[Craig_H]

You don't have to dot your 'i' and cross your 't', the keyboard does it for you.

[Craig_H]

But people say we are playing crap without taking into account the reasons for it. If you examine the reasons you will realize that they are significant and TEMPORARY.

You've heard it all before but certain among here refuse to acknowledge.

Xabi out.
Torres out.
Agger out.
SG out of form due to engerland.

I could go on.

Prove to me you can appreciate that our form is realistic and temporary.

Would you expect our form to be as good with those 3 players out? Yes or No?

Other clubs have had injuries and poor form too. Some manage to grind out boring 1-0 wins on the bounce until their players return from injury and to form.