Kuyt scores more often than Crouch - FACT!

[dww]

If we take out crouches first 18 games when he was having a tough time of it, why don't we take Kuyts last 18 or so games out then, when he's been having a tough time just to settle things up, Kuyt would still have the better record. Lets be honest when both are playing at their level as they were towards the end of last season, they were pretty much evens. IMO neither are good enough, and I'd only keep Torres and Voronin from our strikers, torres is our number one and Voronin is a capable 3rd or 4th choice and would probably be happy with that. If Babel could step his game up, then we'd only need to buy 1 other striker.

That is in a way a fair idea, I mentioned the first 18 games for Crouch as they are an obvious and easily definable period. It is also important though to consider it's timing - namely at the start of Crouch's career with us, it is much more worrying IMO to have had a prolonged dip (which many would argue started last season) once you have been at a club for a length of time.

[Fivex]

Just found the same debate on This Is Anfield (credit to mus2fa), stats from last season I think.... here's the link, it's about 2/3rds of the way down.

PETER CROUCH
Appearances: 49
Total minutes played: 2570 mins

Breakdown:
Community Shield = 1 goal in 89 mins
FA cup (FA) = 0 goals in 90mins
Carling cup (CC)= 1 goals in 90 mins
Champions League (C) = 7 goals in 780 mins (111 mins/goal)
Premiership = 9 goals in 1451 mins (161 mins/goal)
All competitions = 18 goals in 2570 mins (142 mins/goal)


DIRK KUYT
Appearances: 48
Minutes played: 3601 mins

Breakdown:

FA cup (FA) = 1 goal in 90 mins
Carling cup (CC) = 0 goals in 29 mins
Champions League (C) = 1 goal in 900 mins (900 mins/goal)
Premiership = 12 goals in 2582 mins (215 mins/goal)
All competitions = 14 goals in 3601 mins (257 mins/goal).

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I would be interested to see how Crouches ratios are affected by taking out his first 18 games. I know it is controversial but I think the fact he took a while to settle skews those stats a bit. It is reasonable to assume that after that is the most representative of what he would do in the future.

How many times has he come off the bench as well? I'd reckon at least 30% of the time.

You can prove or dis-prove anything witn stats, but use your eyes and common sense and you get a much fairer indication of who's more effective.

[Craig_H]

Just found the same debate on This Is Anfield (credit to mus2fa), stats from last season I think.... here's the link, it's about 2/3rds of the way down.

PETER CROUCH
Appearances: 49
Total minutes played: 2570 mins

Breakdown:
Community Shield = 1 goal in 89 mins
FA cup (FA) = 0 goals in 90mins
Carling cup (CC)= 1 goals in 90 mins
Champions League (C) = 7 goals in 780 mins (111 mins/goal)
Premiership = 9 goals in 1451 mins (161 mins/goal)
All competitions = 18 goals in 2570 mins (142 mins/goal)


DIRK KUYT
Appearances: 48
Minutes played: 3601 mins

Breakdown:

FA cup (FA) = 1 goal in 90 mins
Carling cup (CC) = 0 goals in 29 mins
Champions League (C) = 1 goal in 900 mins (900 mins/goal)
Premiership = 12 goals in 2582 mins (215 mins/goal)
All competitions = 14 goals in 3601 mins (257 mins/goal).

Thank you.

Proves my point, Crouch is a better goal threat, when he gets proper pitch time.

[Jayesh87]

Do you mind digging those numbers out, and not just dish such a statement out as a fact?

no, its fact

[Craig_H]

In fact, Crouch's goals per minutes ratio equates to better than a goal every other game.

Eat that.

[JohnDoe]

You don't need stats to see that.

Kuyt- Easy to mark, anemic, doesn't pose a goal threat, spends most of his time in Liverpool's half, jack of trades, master of none.

Crouch- Target man, nightmare for defenders, immediate effect on opposition's defensive line (forces them to push forward), decreases attention to other players, helps retain possession better.

[tomasjj]

In fact, Crouch's goals per minutes ratio equates to better than a goal every other game.

Eat that.

Is that for me?

It is in your nature, isn't it?

[tomasjj]

Just found the same debate on This Is Anfield (credit to mus2fa), stats from last season I think.... here's the link, it's about 2/3rds of the way down.

PETER CROUCH
Appearances: 49
Total minutes played: 2570 mins

Breakdown:
Community Shield = 1 goal in 89 mins
FA cup (FA) = 0 goals in 90mins
Carling cup (CC)= 1 goals in 90 mins
Champions League (C) = 7 goals in 780 mins (111 mins/goal)
Premiership = 9 goals in 1451 mins (161 mins/goal)
All competitions = 18 goals in 2570 mins (142 mins/goal)


DIRK KUYT
Appearances: 48
Minutes played: 3601 mins

Breakdown:

FA cup (FA) = 1 goal in 90 mins
Carling cup (CC) = 0 goals in 29 mins
Champions League (C) = 1 goal in 900 mins (900 mins/goal)
Premiership = 12 goals in 2582 mins (215 mins/goal)
All competitions = 14 goals in 3601 mins (257 mins/goal).

Interesting, however my initial post took an outlook at their careers as a whole at LFC.

[bigfooty]

Personally I'm okay with Crouch & Kuyt as a starting partnership.

I think they had some very decent games together last season when you consider our wingers mostly consisted of Jermaine Pennant, Bolo Zenden and Mark Gonzalez, none of which are exactly top quality supply men.

A lot of the frustration with Kuyt comes from games where he's played on his own, or with a partner that isn't particular suited to his style of play (Bellamy last season, Voronin this season). Even Torres I'm not sure is a good partner for Kuyt. He needs someone to work off, not with.

[tomasjj]

And again, I don't dispute that Crouch should start ahead of Kuyt now. That is not the point.
I don't like using stats, as I also think you need to look at he whole picture.

I did it only to put a point across - Crouch has an inferior goalscoring record for LFC compared to Kuyt.
My second point was to illustrate how some tend to use stats to suit their agendas, then slate stats when it is not fitting to their cause. I think this thread shows that.

[Neil Young]

And again, I don't dispute that Crouch should start ahead of Kuyt now. That is not the point.
I don't like using stats, as I also think you need to look at he whole picture.

I did it only to put a point across - Crouch has an inferior goalscoring record for LFC compared to Kuyt.
My second point was to illustrate how some tend to use stats to suit their agendas, then slate stats when it is not fitting to their cause. I think this thread shows that.

I've just discovered that while Peter Crouch has scored 34 goals in 111 games when you analyse his minutes per goal ratio you'll find he has actually scored more goals (37 in fact).

Strange but true.

[tomasjj]

I've just discovered that while Peter Crouch has scored 34 goals in 111 games when you analyse his minutes per goal ratio you'll find he has actually scored more goals (37 in fact).

Strange but true.

Well, I never!!

[El Jefecito]

Thank you.

Proves my point, Crouch is a better goal threat, when he gets proper pitch time.

But you are comparing Apples and Oranges. Crouch plays as an out and out striker and Kuyt as a link man. You would hope that he'd have more goals.
The fair comparisons are Torres vs. Crouch and The Crow vs. Kuyt.

[Morph]

I think it's unfair to compare crouches second season to kuyts first, however it doesn't make much difference as far as i'm concerned because I don't think Kuyt is good enough to be in our group of 4 strikers, and i don't think crouch is good enough to be in our top 2, and crouch won't be happy being a bit part player, so both should go imo and i'd get rid of kuyt first