Sack Him..... or don't

[alunevans]

How ya doin' la.
I would love to see more support from our own lot, I'll accept if Rafa gets the sack for purely footballing reasons, I'll be gutted but I'll accept it.
However it seems that the decision was made before Xmas and that is not acceptable.

[Revo]

Newcastle's next manager will be their 4th proper one since Rafa came to Liverpool. I think it is inaccurate to suggest that we're "doing a Newcastle" should Rafa be replaced - be it now or in the Summer.

the comparison is with the fans who cried for the managers head.

[redblood]

Newcastle's next manager will be their 4th proper one since Rafa came to Liverpool. I think it is inaccurate to suggest that we're "doing a Newcastle" should Rafa be replaced - be it now or in the Summer.

I think the 'doing a Newcastle' refers to the lack of patience that seems to be an increasing phenomena among football fans. I thought we were supposed to be better than that after all the 17 year wait for the league is not all Rafa's fault he's only had 3.5 of that.
So if the next guy doesn't win it in 2 years does he go and then 1 year until we have a revolving door managerial situation. That's the way things are looking at the moment we need to put things back in perspective.

[paulcooper4]

the comparison is with the fans who cried for the managers head.

I think the 'doing a Newcastle' refers to the lack of patience that seems to be an increasing phenomena among football fans. I thought we were supposed to be better than that after all the 17 year wait for the league is not all Rafa's fault he's only had 3.5 of that.
So if the next guy doesn't win it in 2 years does he go and then 1 year until we have a revolving door managerial situation. That's the way things are looking at the moment we need to put things back in perspective.

beat me to it lads, I was busy doing my sami hyppia arse kissing thread

Bigfooty, as these 2 lads have explained, I think you missed the point I was making fella

[bigfooty]

The signs were there though last season, for some people it is not a knee-jerk reaction. I haven't gotten fed up with Rafa over the last few weeks, I've been disillusioned with his Premiership tactics for over a year.

[bazza76]

And you in front taking it in the arse.
:whatever:

[bazza76]

I think the 'doing a Newcastle' refers to the lack of patience that seems to be an increasing phenomena among football fans. I thought we were supposed to be better than that after all the 17 year wait for the league is not all Rafa's fault he's only had 3.5 of that.
So if the next guy doesn't win it in 2 years does he go and then 1 year until we have a revolving door managerial situation. That's the way things are looking at the moment we need to put things back in perspective.

Increased money and the media seems to be the reason why expectation have risen, also the fans obviously.
It is a shame the way things are going IMO. It seems now that Rafa is asking for a luxury that is no longer viable, time to build a League winning squad from the youth side right through to the senior team. It is a dream for any manager to be given such time. Sadly, it seems them days may now be gone, with the last manager to be afforded such a luxury being arsene Wenger.

[bigfooty]

I think a manager would be afforded that luxury of time if there were visible signs of progress.

But the fact is that we regressed last season in the league. Even if we had played it out to the end and not given up on matches in the final couple of weeks we would have finished with about 10 fewer points than in 2005-2006.

And though the results were better earlier this season the performances were still a distinctly mixed bunch, both at home and, strangely, in Europe. We've shown we can raise our game when we absolutely have to but for the most part we've been dull, lifeless, disjointed and relied upon Torres and Gerrard to turn games in our favour. That to me is not progress, even though the squad strength is better now that at any time under Rafa or Houllier.

[Revo]

The signs were there though last season, for some people it is not a knee-jerk reaction. I haven't gotten fed up with Rafa over the last few weeks, I've been disillusioned with his Premiership tactics for over a year.

TBH mate you have been consistant and i have no problem with you. you always have a reasoned argument about tactics and selections some of which i actually agree. its the gob****es that havent had enough time for a cup of tea on this forum that come in here and started with the sacking nonsense that i have a real problem with. another problem i have is that any gob****e that would start bigging up jose mourhinio, a man who is the epitomy of wrong in the game, no matter how many cups he has won, a man who denies our 5th glory was legit, a man who has to be bigger than the players and the club and to big him up whilst we still have one of the best managers in europe at the helm is a ****ing discrace.
we are liverpool football club and not some ****ing sideshow for jose mourhinio and its about time some of the gob****es realise that we are very very much bigger than jose cheating **** mourhinio

[paulcooper4]

TBH mate you have been consistant and i have no problem with you. you always have a reasoned argument about tactics and selections some of which i actually agree. its the gob****es that havent had enough time for a cup of tea on this forum that come in here and started with the sacking nonsense that i have a real problem with. another problem i have is that any gob****e that would start bigging up jose mourhinio, a man who is the epitomy of wrong in the game, no matter how many cups he has won, a man who denies our 5th glory was legit, a man who has to be bigger than the players and the club and to big him up whilst we still have one of the best managers in europe at the helm is a ****ing discrace.
we are liverpool football club and not some ****ing sideshow for jose mourhinio and the sooner some of the gob****es realise that we are very very much bigger than jose cheating **** mourhinio

I couldnt agree more kev mate. Absolutely spot on

[Rowan]

I think a manager would be afforded that luxury of time if there were visible signs of progress.

But the fact is that we regressed last season in the league. Even if we had played it out to the end and not given up on matches in the final couple of weeks we would have finished with about 10 fewer points than in 2005-2006.

And though the results were better earlier this season the performances were still a distinctly mixed bunch, both at home and, strangely, in Europe. We've shown we can raise our game when we absolutely have to but for the most part we've been dull, lifeless, disjointed and relied upon Torres and Gerrard to turn games in our favour. That to me is not progress, even though the squad strength is better now that at any time under Rafa or Houllier.

I think we are in the position that we should expect to be in considering our net expenditure. Someone has posted the squad Rafa inherited and the squad he has now for the money he has spent and it does reflect improvement. the problem is that our key rivals are improving at the same time, and spending considerably more in the process.

In order to really, really advance we would need to replace the average, yet hard working, players at our disposal with real class. Kuyt works his nads of so I wont have too much of a go other than to say that he does not meet the required standard. Voronin is frankly awful, yesterday he couldn't even control the ball. We have little creativity from wide positions (playing a left back on the wing for much of yesterday) and while we do have some really good prospects thay are still raw (babel, Lucas, Insua, Nemeth - the last two of whom are miles away from the first team at the minute due to age and experience). So in short we need a right and left winger and 2 or three forwards. Someone mentioned Diego who I think would be a great signing.

Add Macher to that list and you are looking at probably 70-90 mill for 4-5 players. Rafa has never had that sort of cash, unlike Fergie and Jose. He also has not yet had time to bed in Wengers scouting network. Its worth mentioning that for every class act Wenger has picked up there have been a few clangers.

So in short Rafa's spending has only enabled him to be at the edge of competing, without ever really having the opportunity to contend. Without a real cash injection and a good summer clearout we will not be able to move to the next level, regardless of who the manager is.

[redblood]

TBH mate you have been consistant and i have no problem with you. you always have a reasoned argument about tactics and selections some of which i actually agree. its the gob****es that havent had enough time for a cup of tea on this forum that come in here and started with the sacking nonsense that i have a real problem with. another problem i have is that any gob****e that would start bigging up jose mourhinio, a man who is the epitomy of wrong in the game, no matter how many cups he has won, a man who denies our 5th glory was legit, a man who has to be bigger than the players and the club and to big him up whilst we still have one of the best managers in europe at the helm is a ****ing discrace.
we are liverpool football club and not some ****ing sideshow for jose mourhinio and its about time some of the gob****es realise that we are very very much bigger than jose cheating **** mourhinio

Well said Kev

[bazza76]

I think a manager would be afforded that luxury of time if there were visible signs of progress.

But the fact is that we regressed last season in the league. Even if we had played it out to the end and not given up on matches in the final couple of weeks we would have finished with about 10 fewer points than in 2005-2006.

And though the results were better earlier this season the performances were still a distinctly mixed bunch, both at home and, strangely, in Europe. We've shown we can raise our game when we absolutely have to but for the most part we've been dull, lifeless, disjointed and relied upon Torres and Gerrard to turn games in our favour. That to me is not progress, even though the squad strength is better now that at any time under Rafa or Houllier.

There have been visible signs of progress, IMO there have been anyway.
Two Champions League finals with one spectacular win, a few other cup wins. We have become one of the most feared teams in Europe, or squad is much healthier now than it has been for quite some time.
As I have said before, I think we can turn the current slump around, after which, the squad will have learned greatly from.
give rafa till the end of the seaosn at the very least and re-evaluate then.
How much would it cost for example to replace Rafa, the back room staff and start rebuilding a squad in our financial situation?.
Even then, when we bring someone else in, we are not guarinteed success. give the man time to do his job under the correct conditions, unfortunately it seem rafa is not going to be allowed to do his job in peace.

[redblood]

Increased money and the media seems to be the reason why expectation have risen, also the fans obviously.
It is a shame the way things are going IMO. It seems now that Rafa is asking for a luxury that is no longer viable, time to build a League winning squad from the youth side right through to the senior team. It is a dream for any manager to be given such time. Sadly, it seems them days may now be gone, with the last manager to be afforded such a luxury being arsene Wenger.

Sadly it is to true mate, I hope that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot because although at the moment we're disappointed and struggling a bit I think we'll come out of it and I think we'll be closer to the top by the end of the year.
I think if Rafa is given the proper time we'll see the rewards of his overall work as you point out from youth side to senior team.

[bazza76]

Sadly it is to true mate, I hope that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot because although at the moment we're disappointed and struggling a bit I think we'll come out of it and I think we'll be closer to the top by the end of the year.
I think if Rafa is given the proper time we'll see the rewards of his overall work as you point out from youth side to senior team.

we can only hope.
And happy New year mate