Now then, for the love of god, please get the message rafa...

[Craig_H]

Ian Rush is confident the burgeoning strike partnership between Fernando Torres and Peter Crouch could provide Liverpool with a consistent goalscoring formula.
The club's all-time leading goal-getter believes they are the in-form forwards in the Reds' squad at present and thinks the duo should now be given a run of games to show what they can do after they linked up well in the 3-0 win over Sunderland at the weekend.

"There's no doubt that they're the most in-form pairing at present, so I think now is the time to see if they can develop into a decent strike force," said Rush.

"Saturday's match against Sunderland was only the third time they've started a match together in the Premier League, and there were one or two signs that they could flourish.

"But the fact is we will never know unless we give them a chance to gel."

Rush is convinced Crouch would provide the perfect foil for Torres and has highlighted the towering forward's ability in the air as something that could lead to more joy in front of goal for the man nicknamed 'El Nino.'

"I've said before that Peter Crouch has done nothing wrong this season, and with three goals in his last three appearances he's flying," said Rush.

"But his presence can also help Fernando Torres.

"By virtue of his height alone, he occupies one or two defenders, giving Torres more room to operate in, and he showed with the flick-on that created Torres' goal that he can be very much a traditional target man.

"In situations like that it's important that one player is able to anticipate the flick-ons of the other, but Torres is a very intelligent striker and that will never be a problem to a player of his class."

[Exiled_red]

By virtue of his height alone, he occupies one or two defenders, giving Torres more room to operate in

I've been saying that for ages

[Fiddy]

'Didnt care'...well, at least the 'we dont know' part of your post applies somewhere...

As for training, it doesnt mean anything if someone works in training, only to be inept on the field for matches. Crouch produces in the games. If kuyt works his arse off for the piddly five-a-sides in training, bully for him. He doesnt come close to delivering nearly enough in games. That is the important part.

That's a ludicrous comment - how is Rafa supposed to judge who to pick each week except on the basis of how they do in training?! All the best players do well in training too - either in terms of effort or skill level. Players like Fowler were never the hardest trainers but no doubt his class was always evident. Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training - so it's up to Crouchy to impress Rafa enough during the week to make sure he stays in. Rafa, like any other sane manager, picks his players based on a whole week, not just 90 mins on a Saturday. Just as well you're not the manager - 'have the week off boys training doesn't matter'

[dww]

That's a ludicrous comment - how is Rafa supposed to judge who to pick each week except on the basis of how they do in training?! All the best players do well in training too - either in terms of effort or skill level. Players like Fowler were never the hardest trainers but no doubt his class was always evident. Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training - so it's up to Crouchy to impress Rafa enough during the week to make sure he stays in. Rafa, like any other sane manager, picks his players based on a whole week, not just 90 mins on a Saturday. Just as well you're not the manager - 'have the week off boys training doesn't matter'

I actually agree with him here and you seem to later on when you say "Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training". Clearly how you do in training will affect the judgement of a manager but it has to be a modifyer of what has been seen in games more than it is the sole judge of who is in the team in terms of skill (obviously fitness can be judged pretty well in training).

I guess the difficult thing is judging which players who haven't played recently or have played as substitutes deserve a start. In this case the judgement of how they are doing in training is critical.

[Fiddy]

I actually agree with him here and you seem to later on when you say "Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training". Clearly how you do in training will affect the judgement of a manager but it has to be a modifyer of what has been seen in games more than it is the sole judge of who is in the team in terms of skill (obviously fitness can be judged pretty well in training).

I guess the difficult thing is judging which players who haven't played recently or have played as substitutes deserve a start. In this case the judgement of how they are doing in training is critical.

Players might get a 'ride' based on their last performance if they've had an off week in training, or it's someone established like Stevie or Carra. Kuyt has been poor almost all the time he's played this season, so I don't care if he's scoring ten overhead kicks in training it's time to try someone else. I don't mean that training is the SOLE judge of who plays week in, week out, but I think a lot of people underestimate it - football isn't just all about what happens on a Saturday afternoon.

It's also highly unlikely that someone would be the opposite of what we're discussing re: Kuyt - i.e someone cack in training but awesome every game, it just wouldn't happen

[dww]

Players might get a 'ride' based on their last performance if they've had an off week in training, or it's someone established like Stevie or Carra. Kuyt has been poor almost all the time he's played this season, so I don't care if he's scoring ten overhead kicks in training it's time to try someone else. I don't mean that training is the SOLE judge of who plays week in, week out, but I think a lot of people underestimate it - football isn't just all about what happens on a Saturday afternoon.

It's also highly unlikely that someone would be the opposite of what we're discussing re: Kuyt - i.e someone cack in training but awesome every game, it just wouldn't happen

I can see where you are coming from and to a degree I agree about the whole of the week not just match days that count. However in the end the litmus test is the match days. Players like Hamman have been reknown for crap training (and it seemed to keep him out of the team at City) but on match days he has generally been very good.

Maybe it is more about reading what being good in training means for different players. It is easy to underestimate what we don't see but I suspect that the major things other than fitness that a manager gauges is about people listening re:tactics etc. and players general attitude and 'fit' within the team.

[Craig_H]

That's a ludicrous comment - how is Rafa supposed to judge who to pick each week except on the basis of how they do in training?! All the best players do well in training too - either in terms of effort or skill level. Players like Fowler were never the hardest trainers but no doubt his class was always evident. Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training - so it's up to Crouchy to impress Rafa enough during the week to make sure he stays in. Rafa, like any other sane manager, picks his players based on a whole week, not just 90 mins on a Saturday. Just as well you're not the manager - 'have the week off boys training doesn't matter'

Aside from the fact that you contradict yourself, when you say "Kuyt has proven he doesn't deserve to start the games at the moment no matter what he does in training", there's a few other things...

Whilst in an ideal world, you'd base a lot on what happens in training, the fact is that however great kuyt MIGHT be doing in training, his match performances have been inept and he's out of his depth. Training is fine to use as a general guide but what matters is games. You dont get points for training, obviously.

Where did i say training 'doesnt matter' ? Dont be an idiot, i clearly wasnt saying that in the flippant manner you suggest.

But if, as is the case, striker x has a hugely more effective positive impact on our performances in games than striker y does, then you pick striker x. It's a no brainer.

[Craig_H]

Players might get a 'ride' based on their last performance if they've had an off week in training, or it's someone established like Stevie or Carra. Kuyt has been poor almost all the time he's played this season, so I don't care if he's scoring ten overhead kicks in training it's time to try someone else. I don't mean that training is the SOLE judge of who plays week in, week out, but I think a lot of people underestimate it - football isn't just all about what happens on a Saturday afternoon.

It's also highly unlikely that someone would be the opposite of what we're discussing re: Kuyt - i.e someone cack in training but awesome every game, it just wouldn't happen

Exactly. I wasnt dismissing the notion that training holds some value, but as you say, it doesnt matter WHAT kuyt does in training, if he's useless in most games. And he has been.

And as you also rightly say, it just wouldnt happen that Kuyt would be amazing in training but inept in games and likewise, it's ludicrous to suggest that Crouch is just ineffective in training, but doing well when he plays.

You seem to agree with me more than you realised...i dont think i need to debate your arguments as you seem to talk yourself out of your own opinions anyway

[Fiddy]

I'm not sure what's more amusing...you rabbiting on or your new sig.































No, I've decided it's definitely you rabbiting on

I'm not sure what the 'street' bit is about btw seeing as you know precisely **** all about me, and it's ironic seeing as you act the big man in virtually every post of yours. How old are you by the way?

I'm flattered you think I've got a cool username though

[Craig_H]