Now then, for the love of god, please get the message rafa...

[akjs123]

That's not contradicting myself.

All i've said is i dont give a jot about 'movement, linkup play' etc, if the striker in question is scoring goals. That's all i'm fussed about where strikers are concerned. Movement and linkup play isnt remotely important to me, if Crouch scores goals. And he does.

End of debate.

I have highlighted the important points here. Unfortunately you are not the manager nor does Crouch play for DJS FC. If you are happy with a player's performance when he has not shown movement, link up play or form that he has previously shown capable of, but has scored a goal,all against a team that has got only 2 points away from home all season, then there is something wrong with your expectations because much more is expected of liverpool strikers.
In your world, Crouch wouldnt even have challenged for the header for the Torres goal thinking "I have scored a goal and I shouldnt be fussed about anything else. DJS will be happy. Now let me sit on my arse for the rest of the game."

[Craig_H]

I do like it when people try to be clever and their lack of the necessary ability to do so is so exposed...

You're unable to comprehend the scenario, no matter how simple i try to make it.

Crouch scores goals, is a goal threat and contributes FAR FAR MORE than Kuyt.

You apparently seem to rate Kuyt higher, which whilst being bizarre, doesnt actually surprise me coming from you. You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to see how superior Crouch is to Kuyt.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that if a striker regularly scores goals and provides a genuine threat going forward, any other 'lack of movement or linkup play' would matter very little. Unsurprisingly, you dont seem to concur

And your issue of Crouch doing apparently nothing before he scored, is laughable.

He was our matchwinner today...and you seem to prefer 'Deadly' to Crouch. Priceless.

[slimbimjim]

Christ on a ****ing bike...

Who gives two ****s what happened before? Last time i checked, the game is played over 90 minutes. A striker's job is to score. Nobody gives a **** if he has a stinker, but then pops up with the winner.

I'll make it simple for you mate...

Crouch scores goals. Kuyt doesnt.

Hey cool down! I wasn't supporting his comments, I just thought you didn't understand what he said in the first place.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on Crouch starting ahead of Kuyt. Even if Crouch is **** for 89 minutes, he far more likely to make something happen that Kuyt will in 180 minutes (apart from that great assist against Villa).

[akjs123]

I do like it when people try to be clever and their lack of the necessary ability to do so is so exposed...

You're unable to comprehend the scenario, no matter how simple i try to make it.

Crouch scores goals, is a goal threat and contributes FAR FAR MORE than Kuyt.

You apparently seem to rate Kuyt higher, which whilst being bizarre, doesnt actually surprise me coming from you. You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to see how superior Crouch is to Kuyt.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that if a striker regularly scores goals and provides a genuine threat going forward, any other 'lack of movement or linkup play' would matter very little. Unsurprisingly, you dont seem to concur

And your issue of Crouch doing apparently nothing before he scored, is laughable.

He was our matchwinner today...and you seem to prefer 'Deadly' to Crouch. Priceless.

It is so unfortunate that you cannot read properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that in none of my posts have I mentioned Kuyt.
I would like to use one of your phrases here

I do like it when people try to be clever and their lack of the necessary ability to do so is so exposed...

because this is exactly you seem to have done. I put forward a simple argument that a Crouch's play for majority of the game wasnt upto the standard he has shown in the past contrary to your belief that goal scored job done. In his first 4-5 months, he hadnt scored for us but he was performing well and was an important part of the team.
You some how put forth a comparision of how Crouch is better than Kuyt at the same time implying that I favoured Kuyt to Crouch.

You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to understand posts made in simple english.

You apparently seem to rate Kuyt higher, which whilst being bizarre, doesnt actually surprise me coming from you. You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to see how superior Crouch is to Kuyt.

So, you believe the same of Rafa too.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that Crouch isnt a great goalscorer. He misses a lot of simple chances to be classified as that.
A person with an inkling of footballing knowledge would know that for a player to be a genuine threat going forward, he needs to have good movement and linkup play, especially someone like Crouch who doesnt have pace and dribbling skills to beat his man.
Your lack of footballing knowledge is also apparent when you discount the necessity of link up play for Crouch, a man who played his best football with us doing exactly that while attribute goalscoring as the only requirement for someone who misses tons of chances while at the same time discounting off the ball movement which is vital for someone like Owen, Van Nistelrooy, in other words, players whose main requirement is goalscoring.

You lacks of brain cells is also indicated by your constant whining about how we should buy 1 world class player instead of 3 average players and how it is that simple.

You agree with someone who says Dirk+Pennant+Bellamy=Torres but in your small elephant size brains, you cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Gerrard and Garcia as our right sided players, and they also have to play in other positions. You cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Torres, Crouch and Fowler as our three strikers.
Guess what would have happened when Garcia actually got injured for 6 months. Guess what would have happened if Torres found it difficult to adjust to the english game or one of our strikers got injured for a reasonable period of time. We would end up playing the same two strikers for every single game and a good chance of one of them being a past it Robbie Fowler who found it difficult to last 90 minutes.
But no, you live in cloud cuckoo land where it is that simple.
You know whats worse than you having lack of grey cells, its your god complex which makes you behave like your knowledge is complete and that anyone who doesnt have the same opinion as you, even Rafa, is wrong. Unlike you, who spouts bull**** everytime someone disagreed with you, I can justify even that with a fantastic piece by you from not long ago

That's not contradicting myself.

All i've said is i dont give a jot about 'movement, linkup play' etc, if the striker in question is scoring goals. That's all i'm fussed about where strikers are concerned. Movement and linkup play isnt remotely important to me, if Crouch scores goals. And he does.

End of debate.

[Guest]

It is so unfortunate that you cannot read properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that in none of my posts have I mentioned Kuyt.
I would like to use one of your phrases here

because this is exactly you seem to have done. I put forward a simple argument that a Crouch's play for majority of the game wasnt upto the standard he has shown in the past contrary to your belief that goal scored job done. In his first 4-5 months, he hadnt scored for us but he was performing well and was an important part of the team.
You some how put forth a comparision of how Crouch is better than Kuyt at the same time implying that I favoured Kuyt to Crouch.

You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to understand posts made in simple english.


So, you believe the same of Rafa too.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that Crouch isnt a great goalscorer. He misses a lot of simple chances to be classified as that.
A person with an inkling of footballing knowledge would know that for a player to be a genuine threat going forward, he needs to have good movement and linkup play, especially someone like Crouch who doesnt have pace and dribbling skills to beat his man.
Your lack of footballing knowledge is also apparent when you discount the necessity of link up play for Crouch, a man who played his best football with us doing exactly that while attribute goalscoring as the only requirement for someone who misses tons of chances while at the same time discounting off the ball movement which is vital for someone like Owen, Van Nistelrooy, in other words, players whose main requirement is goalscoring.

You lacks of brain cells is also indicated by your constant whining about how we should buy 1 world class player instead of 3 average players and how it is that simple.

You agree with someone who says Dirk+Pennant+Bellamy=Torres but in your small elephant size brains, you cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Gerrard and Garcia as our right sided players, and they also have to play in other positions. You cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Torres, Crouch and Fowler as our three strikers.
Guess what would have happened when Garcia actually got injured for 6 months. Guess what would have happened if Torres found it difficult to adjust to the english game or one of our strikers got injured for a reasonable period of time. We would end up playing the same two strikers for every single game and a good chance of one of them being a past it Robbie Fowler who found it difficult to last 90 minutes.
But no, you live in cloud cuckoo land where it is that simple.
You know whats worse than you having lack of grey cells, its your god complex which makes you behave like your knowledge is complete and that anyone who doesnt have the same opinion as you, even Rafa, is wrong. Unlike you, who spouts bull**** everytime someone disagreed with you, I can justify even that with a fantastic piece by you from not long ago

For taking the time to reply pound for pound alone I raise my hat.

I like DJS but his sanctimonious attitude when he's got something in his head pisses a lot of people off.

[MrMichael]

Crouch should definitely be starting ahead of Kuyt.

BUT, overall, he hasn't particularly impressed with his football this season compared to his form the previous 2 years. Perhaps that's down to not playing as much, but he was dreadful in pre-season and has looked disinterested in many of his starts. As akjs123 says above, Crouch isn't an out&out goal scorer in the fowler/owen/torres mould, but in his first 2 seasons at the club managed to combine an acceptable goal return with generally good linkup and support play. I think that is a crucial area of his game in terms of his overall usefulness to the team, and one in which he has not been performing up to his best this season.

That's not to say he shouldn't be starting ahead of Voronin and Kuyt. The crow just isn't very good, and Kuyt's complete slump has been very sad to see - at the moment, even a partially interested Crouch is still a better option. But there is a hell of a lot more to playing upfront than simply scoring goals, especially if a player is never going to be totally prolific... and nothing in Crouch's history suggests he will ever be that. With Torres in the team his ideal partner need not only to be a goal scorer, but also to add something to the team play, not to the detriment of goal scoring, but as an addition to it. Basically we need our Bergkamp to play with Torres' Henry. Crouch seems like the best option we have at the moment, but his form overall recently, and possibly his attitude in training if some reports are accurate, has not been enough to convince some people that he is the ultimate answer in that position. Scoring regularly is a great place for him to start, and that is a striker's most important job, but it is by no means their only one, and it would be nice to see a bit more of the verve we have seen from him in the past in Crouchie's all round play. When he gets to start the next few games in a row hopefully we'll start to see that return.

[tomasjj]

It is so unfortunate that you cannot read properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that in none of my posts have I mentioned Kuyt.
I would like to use one of your phrases here

because this is exactly you seem to have done. I put forward a simple argument that a Crouch's play for majority of the game wasnt upto the standard he has shown in the past contrary to your belief that goal scored job done. In his first 4-5 months, he hadnt scored for us but he was performing well and was an important part of the team.
You some how put forth a comparision of how Crouch is better than Kuyt at the same time implying that I favoured Kuyt to Crouch.

You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to understand posts made in simple english.


So, you believe the same of Rafa too.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that Crouch isnt a great goalscorer. He misses a lot of simple chances to be classified as that.
A person with an inkling of footballing knowledge would know that for a player to be a genuine threat going forward, he needs to have good movement and linkup play, especially someone like Crouch who doesnt have pace and dribbling skills to beat his man.
Your lack of footballing knowledge is also apparent when you discount the necessity of link up play for Crouch, a man who played his best football with us doing exactly that while attribute goalscoring as the only requirement for someone who misses tons of chances while at the same time discounting off the ball movement which is vital for someone like Owen, Van Nistelrooy, in other words, players whose main requirement is goalscoring.

You lacks of brain cells is also indicated by your constant whining about how we should buy 1 world class player instead of 3 average players and how it is that simple.

You agree with someone who says Dirk+Pennant+Bellamy=Torres but in your small elephant size brains, you cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Gerrard and Garcia as our right sided players, and they also have to play in other positions. You cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Torres, Crouch and Fowler as our three strikers.
Guess what would have happened when Garcia actually got injured for 6 months. Guess what would have happened if Torres found it difficult to adjust to the english game or one of our strikers got injured for a reasonable period of time. We would end up playing the same two strikers for every single game and a good chance of one of them being a past it Robbie Fowler who found it difficult to last 90 minutes.
But no, you live in cloud cuckoo land where it is that simple.
You know whats worse than you having lack of grey cells, its your god complex which makes you behave like your knowledge is complete and that anyone who doesnt have the same opinion as you, even Rafa, is wrong. Unlike you, who spouts bull**** everytime someone disagreed with you, I can justify even that with a fantastic piece by you from not long ago

You tell that ballbag, mate.

[akjs123]

Crouch should definitely be starting ahead of Kuyt.

BUT, overall, he hasn't particularly impressed with his football this season compared to his form the previous 2 years. Perhaps that's down to not playing as much, but he was dreadful in pre-season and has looked disinterested in many of his starts. As akjs123 says above, Crouch isn't an out&out goal scorer in the fowler/owen/torres mould, but in his first 2 seasons at the club managed to combine an acceptable goal return with generally good linkup and support play. I think that is a crucial area of his game in terms of his overall usefulness to the team, and one in which he has not been performing up to his best this season.

That's not to say he shouldn't be starting ahead of Voronin and Kuyt. The crow just isn't very good, and Kuyt's complete slump has been very sad to see - at the moment, even a partially interested Crouch is still a better option. But there is a hell of a lot more to playing upfront than simply scoring goals, especially if a player is never going to be totally prolific... and nothing in Crouch's history suggests he will ever be that. With Torres in the team his ideal partner need not only to be a goal scorer, but also to add something to the team play, not to the detriment of goal scoring, but as an addition to it. Basically we need our Bergkamp to play with Torres' Henry. Crouch seems like the best option we have at the moment, but his form overall recently, and possibly his attitude in training if some reports are accurate, has not been enough to convince some people that he is the ultimate answer in that position. Scoring regularly is a great place for him to start, and that is a striker's most important job, but it is by no means their only one, and it would be nice to see a bit more of the verve we have seen from him in the past in Crouchie's all round play. When he gets to start the next few games in a row hopefully we'll start to see that return.

I think the only reason we have seen so less of Crouch this season because Rafa has been playing 1 upfront and 1 behind him this season and Torres is the man upfront. Kuyt and Voronin can play behind him and playing in the hole might be one of the reasons of Kuyt's poor performances. It goes unnoticed but Kuyt hasnt made one sound about playing in the hole when he is an out and out striker unlike his fellow dutchman.
Crouch, however, can only play upfront and that would lead to Torres playing behind him which might reduce effectiveness of Torres as he cant use pace to get behind defenders. Crouch's form has not justified playing Torres in a role which reduces his effectiveness as a goalscorer.
That is my theory anyway although Echo linking us to Aimar might point in that direction.

[donpisci]

It is so unfortunate that you cannot read properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that in none of my posts have I mentioned Kuyt.
I would like to use one of your phrases here

because this is exactly you seem to have done. I put forward a simple argument that a Crouch's play for majority of the game wasnt upto the standard he has shown in the past contrary to your belief that goal scored job done. In his first 4-5 months, he hadnt scored for us but he was performing well and was an important part of the team.
You some how put forth a comparision of how Crouch is better than Kuyt at the same time implying that I favoured Kuyt to Crouch.

You've proven to be unable to grasp sheer simplicity, so it's par for the course that you'd somehow fail to understand posts made in simple english.


So, you believe the same of Rafa too.

Most people with the most remote indication of a brain cell would concur that Crouch isnt a great goalscorer. He misses a lot of simple chances to be classified as that.
A person with an inkling of footballing knowledge would know that for a player to be a genuine threat going forward, he needs to have good movement and linkup play, especially someone like Crouch who doesnt have pace and dribbling skills to beat his man.
Your lack of footballing knowledge is also apparent when you discount the necessity of link up play for Crouch, a man who played his best football with us doing exactly that while attribute goalscoring as the only requirement for someone who misses tons of chances while at the same time discounting off the ball movement which is vital for someone like Owen, Van Nistelrooy, in other words, players whose main requirement is goalscoring.

You lacks of brain cells is also indicated by your constant whining about how we should buy 1 world class player instead of 3 average players and how it is that simple.

You agree with someone who says Dirk+Pennant+Bellamy=Torres but in your small elephant size brains, you cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Gerrard and Garcia as our right sided players, and they also have to play in other positions. You cant contemplate that doing that leaves only Torres, Crouch and Fowler as our three strikers.
Guess what would have happened when Garcia actually got injured for 6 months. Guess what would have happened if Torres found it difficult to adjust to the english game or one of our strikers got injured for a reasonable period of time. We would end up playing the same two strikers for every single game and a good chance of one of them being a past it Robbie Fowler who found it difficult to last 90 minutes.
But no, you live in cloud cuckoo land where it is that simple.
You know whats worse than you having lack of grey cells, its your god complex which makes you behave like your knowledge is complete and that anyone who doesnt have the same opinion as you, even Rafa, is wrong. Unlike you, who spouts bull**** everytime someone disagreed with you, I can justify even that with a fantastic piece by you from not long ago

Couldn't agree more

[MrMichael]

I think the only reason we have seen so less of Crouch this season because Rafa has been playing 1 upfront and 1 behind him this season and Torres is the man upfront. Kuyt and Voronin can play behind him and playing in the hole might be one of the reasons of Kuyt's poor performances. It goes unnoticed but Kuyt hasnt made one sound about playing in the hole when he is an out and out striker unlike his fellow dutchman.
Crouch, however, can only play upfront and that would lead to Torres playing behind him which might reduce effectiveness of Torres as he cant use pace to get behind defenders. Crouch's form has not justified playing Torres in a role which reduces his effectiveness as a goalscorer.
That is my theory anyway although Echo linking us to Aimar might point in that direction.

Kuyt's problem has simply been that his confidence infront of goal is so shot that his return, even being played as you say, has now just become silly. Its really sad to see, especially the way some of the fans have turned on him; I still think there's a decent player in there but at the moment, whatever the problem is, whether its the system or him, he has been part of the problem. A part that has been significantly overplayed on this forum, but a part nonetheless. Not to have given Crouch a run of games recently, even if that had just proven it wouldn't work, and given Kuyt a break, has been a real mistake.

[akjs123]

Kuyt's problem has simply been that his confidence infront of goal is so shot that his return, even being played as you say, has now just become silly. Its really sad to see, especially the way some of the fans have turned on him; I still think there's a decent player in there but at the moment, whatever the problem is, whether its the system or him, he has been part of the problem. A part that has been significantly overplayed on this forum, but a part nonetheless. Not to have given Crouch a run of games recently, even if that had just proven it wouldn't work, and given Kuyt a break, has been a real mistake.

Its such a shame it has turned out like this for him. I was watching our season review a couple of days back and he doesnt look the same player. Remember his debut for us, he was eager to impress and score his first goal.

[Craig_H]

It's quite obvious that most people are quite happy for a striker to produce little 'movement and linkup play' for most of the game, but pop up with a winning goal in the latter stages. Akis and chums apparently arent. Fair enough. Most people are a bit more clued up....and are.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Crouch is a goal threat. And an assist to boot...

Kuyt isnt.

Keep playing Crouch.

End of.

Game against the Chavs will be telling IMO.

If he picks Kuyt over Crouch again then it's a clear indication that he's lost the plot.

But I actually don't think he will.

Still I wouldn't bet on it.

[Craig_H]

It'd be beyond all sane logic if kuyt starts at Chelsea.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I'll have you a wager that Kuyt plays instead of Crouch against Chelsea next weekend.

Mate he won't. Surely?

That kind of decision loses the dressing room.

I think he's lost it already mind you.

And to be honest after last night he can't start Kuyt again.

Watching Torres last night he looked much more happy playing up there with a proper footballer.

Then again with Rafa doing his Houllier management style impression right now, who knows?