Now then, for the love of god, please get the message rafa...

[MrMichael]

In the context of a discussion about strikers and where our potential partners for Torres are Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin, we're not really in a position to be picky about a striker who has superb movement, links the play, sets up a couple of goals and then bags a hat trick.

Where did i suggest Crouch was completely above criticism? It's funny how you come up with this and then ironically start implying that i suggested Crouch was above criticism...

The crux of this is, we're talking about the strikers we DO have, sure we'd all love the world's best mythical striker who holds up the ball, links the player, has delicious movement and scores 50 goals a season, but back in the real world, we have Torres, Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin. So we're comparing the merits of those we DO have.

Kuyt has been playing game after game, posing no threat whatsoever and not even producing this elusive wonderful movement and linkup play that seems to have you lot drooling. Then Crouch, off the back of 3 goals in 4 starts, gets a game, doesnt light the night's sky up in glorious perfection, but contributes more goal threat in one game than Kuyt has in months, and there's people telling me he did nothing til he scored, as if the alternative option had been spending the last 10 games dominating the game.
It's laughable.

The fact is, in the last 5 or 6 games, we've been playing with ONE goal threat up front and absolutely zero from his strike partner, so when Crouch comes in, offers apparently poor movement and linkup play, but then scores the winner and sets up the 2nd to kill the game...forgive me for remembering how little Kuyt's been offering and popping the proverbial champagne corks when we finally have a striker alongside torres whose contributions have a direct impact on us scoring goals and winning games.

Dude, seriously though, I can't see one person on this forum who has been "drooling" about anything to do with Kuyt recently, even his biggest fans. Basically, I agree with you, and think Crouch should be given a run in the side. BUT, it is still a valid point to say that we'd like to see Crouch playing his all round game the way we know he can.

[Craig_H]

I'm not saying Kuyt should start instead of Crouch. Infact I havent even brought Kuyt into the arguement at any point. You said that Crouch had a good game because he scored and created one goal. I am saying that despite he created and scored one goal, his performance in terms of link up play, something which has been his outstanding feature, was poor in comparision to what he has previously shown and has been poor all season. And he wont find it so easy to score and create one against Chelsea or Inter. So there is massive room for improvement despite the goal and assist.

Woah, uber misunderstanding time...

Did i say Crouch had a good game? I was merely saying that, as many of us have said a million times, when Crouch plays, he poses a threat. And in comparison to kuyt, the difference in terms of threat, is a chasm.

I'm talking about the options we have and it's a no brainer than Crouch should start ahead of Kuyt every day of the week.

Crouch didnt put in a Pele-like performance. In fact, very few of our players were that great. Crouch was the matchwinner though, which i'll happily settle for, especially in the current climate. What relevance you found in starting an argument based on Crouch not putting in a Pele performance, i'm not sure.

[Craig_H]

Dude, seriously though, I can't see one person on this forum who has been "drooling" about anything to do with Kuyt recently, even his biggest fans. Basically, I agree with you, and think Crouch should be given a run in the side. BUT, it is still a valid point to say that we'd like to see Crouch playing his all round game the way we know he can.

We'd like to see EVERYONE play to their level. Nobody has been playing remotely close to what they're capable of. What's your point mate? I dont see why Crouch is being singled out, the whole team has been ****e of late.

The point of this thread is that Crouch has shown once again, why he should play and it was just a case of making that point.

[akjs123]

Woah, uber misunderstanding time...

Did i say Crouch had a good game? I was merely saying that, as many of us have said a million times, when Crouch plays, he poses a threat. And in comparison to kuyt, the difference in terms of threat, is a chasm.

I'm talking about the options we have and it's a no brainer than Crouch should start ahead of Kuyt every day of the week.

Crouch didnt put in a Pele-like performance. In fact, very few of our players were that great. Crouch was the matchwinner though, which i'll happily settle for, especially in the current climate. What relevance you found in starting an argument based on Crouch not putting in a Pele performance, i'm not sure.

Have I compared him to Pele? I have just stated that his game is nowhere near what he has shown previously.
Or maybe you are trying to be clever and your lack of the necessary ability to do so is so getting exposed with the Pele comparision.

Its my "Crouch's allround game is important because he isnt a great goalscorer and his goal and assist shouldnt mean that other things are discounted"

against your

All i've said is i dont give a jot about 'movement, linkup play' etc, if the striker in question is scoring goals. That's all i'm fussed about where strikers are concerned. Movement and linkup play isnt remotely important to me, if Crouch scores goals. And he does.

Quite simple english really unless you are unable to grasp sheer simplicity.

[yukpo]

Crouch is a goal threat. And an assist to boot...

Kuyt isnt.

Keep playing Crouch.

End of.

watch him get dropped against chelsea next week for that useless dutch marathon runner.

[Dhav]

watch him get dropped against chelsea next week for that useless dutch marathon runner.

the useless Dutch marathon runner who probably puts in more effort than half the team combined at the moment, and in that list I include the golden boys Gerrard and Carra. IMO he deserves some credit for that. He may be poor, but he is far more humble, modest, committed, dedicated than some of the prima donnas we idolise.

We know the guy is not up to it, and that he doesn't have the technical ability, but he deserves far more respect than he gets on here. The man is on a woeful run of form, that has strangely enough coincided with his father's death. But people are far too quick to get on his back - he showed last season he is capable of far more than he is showing now.

I dont think his continued selection can be justified given that he is now missing even 5 yard passes. But having said that I really do think he gets far too much stick from fans. On Wed at West Ham fans were groaning and getting on his back when he was getting out-jumped. Being taken out the team would be as much for his own good as the team's.

[Joe King]

AAAGGGGHHHH!!! Too many big posts.

I would like Crouch to start against Chelsea but knowing Rafa's style away from home, he will play Kuyt so that we can get somewhat of a five man midfield.

[Craig_H]

the useless Dutch marathon runner who probably puts in more effort than half the team combined at the moment, and in that list I include the golden boys Gerrard and Carra. IMO he deserves some credit for that. He may be poor, but he is far more humble, modest, committed, dedicated than some of the prima donnas we idolise.

We know the guy is not up to it, and that he doesn't have the technical ability, but he deserves far more respect than he gets on here. The man is on a woeful run of form, that has strangely enough coincided with his father's death. But people are far too quick to get on his back - he showed last season he is capable of far more than he is showing now.

I dont think his continued selection can be justified given that he is now missing even 5 yard passes. But having said that I really do think he gets far too much stick from fans. On Wed at West Ham fans were groaning and getting on his back when he was getting out-jumped. Being taken out the team would be as much for his own good as the team's.

In all honesty, the effort argument is what someone turns to when they're just not very good. Bolton and Wigan rely on hard work, we're slightly above that.

If kuyt put in less effort but actually brought some quality to the table, i'd prefer that. Effort without ability is useless mate.

[paulcooper4]

In all honesty, the effort argument is what someone turns to when they're just not very good. Bolton and Wigan rely on hard work, we're slightly above that.

If kuyt put in less effort but actually brought some quality to the table, i'd prefer that. Effort without ability is useless mate.

I think he knows that syd, if you actually READ his post, he is talking about respect (or lack of it)

[Dhav]

In all honesty, the effort argument is what someone turns to when they're just not very good. Bolton and Wigan rely on hard work, we're slightly above that.

If kuyt put in less effort but actually brought some quality to the table, i'd prefer that. Effort without ability is useless mate.

The effort argument is not a strong enough one, on his current form, to make or support a case for him being in the team ahead of Crouch. I accept that.

But as far as his effort and commitment goes, it, and he are deserving of far more respect than what Kuyt gets from the fans both on these boards and in the stands at matches. As poor as he has been lately (and he is a far better player than his current form suggests, although still not good enough to be a long term partner for Torres IMO) he puts in far more effort, far more running, far more determined play than Gerrard or Crouch are at the moment. When the chips are down what does Kuyt do? He runs his socks off, chases every ball, he's every where. what does Gerrard do when the chips are down? He skulks arounds, moaning, getting on other players backs.

What does Kuyt get for his effort, for his whole-hearted running? Groaning. Fans getting on his back when a player taller than him outjumps him. Being called a Dutch marathon runner

People will always trot out the old argument of how it's so easy to put effort in and run all day, anyone playing for Liverpool would do the same. Well I tell you what, too few of our players are doing it, and the one who does is the one who gets criticised the most. And I for one think it's a disgrace.

I think he knows that syd, if you actually READ his post, he is talking about respect (or lack of it)

[Craig_H]

I think he knows that syd, if you actually READ his post, he is talking about respect (or lack of it)

Granted coops and no problem with that. But all we're doing is stating the truth, he ISNT very good and shouldnt be playing.

Is that being disrespectful, or just honest? Nobody's slagging him off really.

[paulcooper4]

Granted coops and no problem with that. But all we're doing is stating the truth, he ISNT very good and shouldnt be playing.

Is that being disrespectful, or just honest? Nobody's slagging him off really.

dhavlos`s reply above is pretty much along the lines of what I was going to reply to this with, but only far better put!

[Craig_H]

The marathon runner is hardly abusive

But anyway, that's one comment. Generally, people are simply making a judgement on his ability and expressing it. It's not disrespectful.

[Dhav]

Granted coops and no problem with that. But all we're doing is stating the truth, he ISNT very good and shouldnt be playing.

Is that being disrespectful, or just honest? Nobody's slagging him off really.

People at the match are, and he's been called a "useless Dutch marathon runner" above. Well right now, Gerrard is a useless, whinging, moaning ****, but we dont get many comments like that on here do we? Certainly in comparison to the comments about Kuyt. But at least Kuyt is determined and is trying his best.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Granted coops and no problem with that. But all we're doing is stating the truth, he ISNT very good and shouldnt be playing.

Is that being disrespectful, or just honest? Nobody's slagging him off really.

KUYT'S ****IN ****E