Now then, for the love of god, please get the message rafa...

[Craig_H]

When Crouch started with us and couldnt score, rafa kept faith with him, granted...but the alternatives were doing not much better.

And that was then. If we're talking about the here and now (more relevant), Crouch has 18 in 26 starts last season and that alone means he should've started the season as Torres' regular partner. Had he done so, he'd have about 15 goals by now.

[Exiled_red]

It might make you realise why i'm so emphatic in my desire to see Crouch start. He's played the equivalent of 5 matches (in terms of minutes) and has 8 goals.

Whereas in the equivalent of 13.5 games, Kuyt has 7 goals.

My thoughts exactly.

Also if you take into account that in those stats Kuyt has 2 pens and Crouch has none, then you can see even more clearly who offers the bigger goal threat

[NRCRED]

I assume so, based on Crouch's stats stating no wins when scoring!!
However the main stats [page for liverpool has been updated

[Craig_H]

When did Rafa show the same faith to Crouch as he did to Kuyt? When we first signed Crouch? This season and last (when we've had both Crouch and Kuyt) Rafa has always seemed to pick Kuyt ahead of Crouch despite Crouch having a better goals to minutes played ratio.

[Craig_H]

My thoughts exactly.

Also if you take into account that in those stats Kuyt has 2 pens and Crouch has none, then you can see even more clearly who offers the bigger goal threat

Indeed, i forgot that nearly half Kuyt's tally came from 2 pens.

The lad can certainly take a penalty, no question.

I thought that the H&W game would've given him the ideal chance to bag a couple of goals and get some confidence back, but he never managed it and there's very little weight in any argument to start him ahead of Crouch.

[Skillz]

It's only 'lately' that he's had any kind of chance in the first team.

How can he convince you from the sodding bench? WHU away, we were crying out for a change and a threat up front, but Crouch remained on the bench

He was piss poor at the start of the year. Rafa quite rightly IMO went with Kuyt at the time. He has supported Kuyt as he did for Crouch when he went through similar difficulties.

What you forget is Rafa's game plan this year involved Torres/Crouch for 1 spot and Kuyt/Veronin in the other, hence Crouch's lack of time. Fact is though that until recently all three of Kuyt/Crouch/Vorinin were poor. Kuyt was always trying his hardest and for a long time proved to be Torres best partner. He hasn't increased his output, infact it has gone backwards, but to suggest Crouch was beating down the door is bull****.

[Craig_H]

I assume so, based on Crouch's stats stating no wins when scoring!!
However the main stats [page for liverpool has been updated

Ok, so Crouch actually has NINE goals then.

I dont think there are many defenders who'd rather play against Crouchy than would prefer to play against Kuyt.

I honestly think it's a no brainer. I've no problem with people sticking up for Dirk, he's one of ours after all. But in a direct head-to-head comparison between him and Crouch (also one of ours), there's no debate for me.

If you want someone who scores and is a threat, it's Crouch over Kuyt every minute of every day of the week.

[desertscouser]

My thoughts exactly.

Also if you take into account that in those stats Kuyt has 2 pens and Crouch has none, then you can see even more clearly who offers the bigger goal threat

It's pretty much beyond reasonable debate. Kuyt offers no goal threat whereas Crouch does.

[Craig_H]

He was piss poor at the start of the year. Rafa quite rightly IMO went with Kuyt at the time. He has supported Kuyt as he did for Crouch when he went through similar difficulties.

What you forget is Rafa's game plan this year involved Torres/Crouch for 1 spot and Kuyt/Veronin in the other, hence Crouch's lack of time. Fact is though that until recently all three of Kuyt/Crouch/Vorinin were poor. Kuyt was always trying his hardest and for a long time proved to be Torres best partner. He hasn't increased his output, infact it has gone backwards, but to suggest Crouch was beating down the door is bull****.

Crouch never had a run of games at the start of the year either.

As i said, if he'd played 1st team football on a regular basis, he'd surely be closing in on 15 goals by now. Evidence suggests he would. 18 in 26 starts is prolific.

I dont see how Crouch was 'piss poor' at the start of the season, when he barely had a look in. If he'd started 5-10 games in a row or something, then fair enough, that's a fair enough period of playing time to judge him on. But he didnt.

[Craig_H]

It's pretty much beyond reasonable debate. Kuyt offers no goal threat whereas Crouch does.

This is what baffles me to the point of pulling my hair out. It's not even a close contest, if it was, i wouldnt bat an eyelid at the strength of the defence Dirk's getting. But it's SO blatantly obvious that Crouch is infinitely more of a goal threat than Kuyt, that it really is beyond question, as you say. I'm stunned that people can genuinely disagree with this!

[Dhav]

It might make you realise why i'm so emphatic in my desire to see Crouch start. He's played the equivalent of 5 matches (in terms of minutes) and has 8 goals.

And he's looked much more threatening when coming off the bench than he has when he's started.

[Craig_H]

And he's looked much more threatening when coming off the bench than he has when he's started.

That's all relative really. And in actual fact, i think you're wrong anyway, because (and i'm 90% sure of this), all of his goals last season came when he started. None when he came off the bench.

Regardless of whether he starts or comes off the bench though, he STILL has miles more goal threat than Kuyt does. It's indisputable mate.

[tomasjj]

Why the **** are you arguing about this?

It seems crystal clear that right now, based on form, Crouch has to be preferred ahead of Kuyt...

[Exiled_red]

Ok, so Crouch actually has NINE goals then.

I dont think there are many defenders who'd rather play against Crouchy than would prefer to play against Kuyt.

I honestly think it's a no brainer. I've no problem with people sticking up for Dirk, he's one of ours after all. But in a direct head-to-head comparison between him and Crouch (also one of ours), there's no debate for me.

If you want someone who scores and is a threat, it's Crouch over Kuyt every minute of every day of the week.

No crouch only has 8 goals (after sunderland game), but the stats about wins, draws and losses were from before sunderland game

[Craig_H]

No crouch only has 8 goals (after sunderland game), but the stats about wins, draws and losses were from before sunderland game

Ah my mistake then...fair play.