I don't understand Benitez, Capello and the like

[Rashid]

The problem with that analysis is that you say that Valencia played good football and that Rafa is a good coach before criticising Rafa for aiming for a stale brand of football. I think that is a contradiction and part of what makes this argument feel so repetitive and pointless.

Rafa is a world class coach, just look at the trophies he has won - that demands respect and the title of "good coach" - it doesn't mean that he doesn't play a stale brand of football. Apart from the league here where he has failed, he has been a success in all the competitions including La Liga and in Europe - he is a good coach, just a very pragmatic one. I for one don't like that particluar style of play and I am open about it.

[Johnny]

dww - great post mate but I won't take away from Rafa's achievement - he made Houllier's and Cuper's team of duds and nearly men respectively into massive winners almost overnight. He has won as much as anyone over the past 5 years... I just hate the style of play and caution.

IMO we play nothing like United and are certainly are not as brave as them, nor do we have the same movement. They have rebuilt nearly a whole team since Rafa has been here too - they have many new players snce Rafa arrived - VDV, Vidic, Evra, Nani, Tevez, Hargreaves, Carrick, to name but a few... they all seem to come in, settle over a few games and then not look back.

I think the biggest difference between, Wenger and Ferguson, and then Rafa is that the former two allow their players to express themselves and their attackers and wide players are not forced to defend as much as our are.

What was his NET spend on those Rashid???

[Rashid]

What was his NET spend on those Rashid???

His NET spend over the past few years is better than us mate. When he bought Carrick he sold Nistellroy to buy him. He sold Beckham for £25m too.... in the past 12 months he has sold a few too...

He manages to sell ****e for good money too...

Recently, Fregie has bought Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Kszciak for about £51m plus a £6m loan fee for Carlos Tevez.

They also sold Heinze, Smith, Rossi and Richardson for about £25m.

[Laz]

Ok, so with the Keane transfer we went ahead on NET spend by around £10m but they will soon be back ahead with the Berba signing (even if we include Riera) and stretch it even further if they make the Tevez deal permanent. Didn't I see a figure of £32m being touted for him not so long ago? I wonder if that includes the £6m loan figure.

EDIT. Oh yes, and all that while he's built an almost entirely new starting 11. Fergie's starting 11 yesterday still included Brown, Fletcher, Scholes, O'Shea, Ferdinand, and Rooney who are not included in that NET spend and also Neville, Giggs and Ronaldo are there or there abouts.

[Rashid]

The day Rafa signed, If someone said that we would spend on a par or a little more than United over the next four years - would people have said "he needs more, Fergie has a stronger base, we need an Abramovich" etc? I somehow doubt it, every season we hear new excuses - there will come a time when the excuses have to end.

[Exiled_red]

Rafa's Valencia had an out and out winger in Vicente, and a world class play maker behind the striker in Aimar - neither type of player is currently at Anfield or has been bought by Rafa. I don't think the Valencia model has been replicated here, and more to the point, the team Rafa had at Valencia was not his team - but he was the man that made them into winners. Rafa is more of a coach than a team builder IMO.

Maybe for some reason Rafa and the backroom staff he brought with him from Valencia thought that the Valencia model wouldn't work well in English football ...

[Rashid]

I am not sure about that when you consider that United have won league titles with wingers and link players... as have Arsenal and Chelsea.

[Exiled_red]

I am not sure about that when you consider that United have won league titles with wingers and link players... as have Arsenal and Chelsea.

I'm not saying that's definately the case just putting it forward as a possible suggestion as to why we're not set up like Valencia, as it's unusual for a manager to change their style of play when they move to a different club

[kris90210]

The day Rafa signed, If someone said that we would spend on a par or a little more than United over the next four years - would people have said "he needs more, Fergie has a stronger base, we need an Abramovich" etc? I somehow doubt it, every season we hear new excuses - there will come a time when the excuses have to end.

Every year we are getting closer and closer to United. I think you're right about Rafa's style of play relying on star players - its just that we haven't been able to sign those star players in attacking positions just yet - Torres the exception obviously.

When Rafa first arrived, Ferguson already had a team that was streets ahead of us. Rafa has been playing catch up since day one - and he's actually doing it. He is catching up with arguably the best british manager of all time. Cut the guy some slack. We will improve year on year with Benitez and so will the quality of our football.

If Keane clicks and Riera turns out to be a good outlet for us, add that to what we already have and we should be pushing for the title this year.

Also, for what its worth I think some of the anti-Rashid posts are a bit over the top. He can be an annoying ******* at times but I dont think his viewpoints (on this at least) are calculated to wind us all up. At least he's trying to explain his reasoning, which should be enough to warrant a bit of respect even if you dont agree with his views.