I don't understand Benitez, Capello and the like

[Woobus]

esp when you are at home. Sometimes that arsenal mentality of letting the opposition worry about you rather than the other way round would really benefit us

We would all want that, but when did that actually win you anything? People say Rafa cant win the league due to the Spanish league being different, they both won a league in the same year and the Premiership and Spanish league are totally different from how the premiership is now.
I just cant understand how Liverpool fans covet Wenger when he has had much more time with his team and league and won nothing compared to Rafa in the same time. Once Wenger wins something again I might get the respect back, but fancy football wins you nothing and lets back Rafa who has been picking up cups instead of feck all.

[MrMichael]

So? That's not how they normally play and besides it's first we want not 3rd so Arsenal are neither here nor there for us - they were also missing Fabregas and Diaby their two CM... what we played today isn't far from the norm for us. Our style of play is appalling, ale house at times. Our two wide men today were worse than Boro's!

See I don't quite understand the obsession people seem to have had in the aftermath of yesterday's game with our wide players. We were far worse in the middle of the pitch imo, and in all honesty, we could have had the best 2 wingers in the world and still not have done much better if the midfield were incapable of controlling the game and providing them with good balls. People just use a dodgy team performance to justify their overall feelings about where we need strengthening, without actually watching what happened on the pitch. Kuyt, who is absolutely no 4-4-2 right winger, was by a mile our best "midfielder" in that game, his use of possession, movement, control and ball retention was much better than Alonso or Gerrard's. And Benayoun, who admittedly had a shocking game, is filling in a position which he is absolutely not suited to.

Unless we manage to pull another wide, creative player out of the hat in the next week, those 2, along with Babel, are the best players we have to play there, and should be judged on their actual performances in games, not because of some pre-determined bias, or because people have decided they aren't the ideal players for us to have in those positions. At least in the case of Kuyt, that performance was not bad today, and they were absolutely not primarily responsible for any "ale house football" we may or may not have played.

Absolutely we are crying out for other options there than the ones we have, but the "old-fashioned" hug-the-touchline winger is actually quite a rare breed these days, at least good ones are, and its slightly disputable how effective such players would be for us anyway as our strikers strengths are not particularly in meeting crosses etc.

[Guest]

Winning ugly is good, it's just not nice when it is the norm. If anyone cannot see that our style of play is awful is obviously not in love with the beautiful game.

We'll play better. Try some anti-depressants.

[sinbad]

I was pretty annoyed today, because we really didn't pass it, we didn't move, we didn't have any imagination, we didn't have any pattern of play, any penetration or any composure on the ball. It makes me wonder whether the lads spend the week training or just listening to instructions on how to "stop the opposition".... it's sad really. Our style of play really sucks (Boro played more football than us) and like under Houllier the plan is always to "control the game" ie "don't concede" and then hope on of your stars will pop up with something.

Have to agree, our style of play is an embarrassment to watch. It's come to something, when Stokes passing and movement of the ball left me wishing we could play like that.

[Rashid]

See I don't quite understand the obsession people seem to have had in the aftermath of yesterday's game with our wide players. We were far worse in the middle of the pitch imo, and in all honesty, we could have had the best 2 wingers in the world and still not have done much better if the midfield were incapable of controlling the game and providing them with good balls. People just use a dodgy team performance to justify their overall feelings about where we need strengthening, without actually watching what happened on the pitch. Kuyt, who is absolutely no 4-4-2 right winger, was by a mile our best "midfielder" in that game, his use of possession, movement, control and ball retention was much better than Alonso or Gerrard's. And Benayoun, who admittedly had a shocking game, is filling in a position which he is absolutely not suited to.

Unless we manage to pull another wide, creative player out of the hat in the next week, those 2, along with Babel, are the best players we have to play there, and should be judged on their actual performances in games, not because of some pre-determined bias, or because people have decided they aren't the ideal players for us to have in those positions. At least in the case of Kuyt, that performance was not bad today, and they were absolutely not primarily responsible for any "ale house football" we may or may not have played.

Absolutely we are crying out for other options there than the ones we have, but the "old-fashioned" hug-the-touchline winger is actually quite a rare breed these days, at least good ones are, and its slightly disputable how effective such players would be for us anyway as our strikers strengths are not particularly in meeting crosses etc.

Micheal there was acres and acres of space out wide yesterday and the wo wide men were petrified of running into that area. Every time the 2 CM's had the ball the wide players were close to them and not getting into that space. Playing CM is not easy when you don't have many options. It was ridiculous at times. Their two full backs had **** all to do all afternoon - even jocky showed it on TV later on, the acres of space that LFC simply didn't use.

Due to the lack of options outwide, we ended up hoofing it to Torres all afternoon. Dossenna become Robot Riise for the afternoon, Carra loves hoofing it anyway, and even Alonson was hitting long balls to nobody hoping to stretch the game - but the full backs and the wide players were having none of it.

Nobody is asking for "chalk on boots wingers" - but a little creavity, the ability to beat a man for pace and skill and maybe just maybe some football that has an iota of pattern to it would be nice.

As I said before we still haven't improved on Barmby and Berger, or Simcer and Murphy and that is an indictment if anything.

[Rashid]

Have to agree, our style of play is an embarrassment to watch. It's come to something, when Stokes passing and movement of the ball left me wishing we could play like that.

Boro passed and moved and had more composure than us yesterday. While they tried to play football, we tried to make the game into a scrap. It should be the other way round.

[Guest]

Boro passed and moved and had more composure than us yesterday. While they tried to play football, we tried to make the game into a scrap. It should be the other way round.

We played some great football during the first 15 minutes, in patches. It's not for the lack of trying you know. We had an International break in the week and some players are not 100% so that could explain it no ????

[Rashid]

We played some great football during the first 15 minutes, in patches. It's not for the lack of trying you know. We had an International break in the week and some players are not 100% so that could explain it no ????

Can we get away from this idea that it's a "new" thing... it's not. We play this brand of football all the time. I have heard every excuse from "champions win ugly" to now "it was international week".

Our passing, movement and composure is ale house. We have some fantastic players, we need to get them to play football not stratego.

[Guest]

Can we get away from this idea that it's a "new" thing... it's not. We play this brand of football all the time. I have heard every excuse from "champions win ugly" to now "it was international week".

Our passing, movement and composure is ale house. We have some fantastic players, we need to get them to play football not stratego.

I don't care if we win and we're NOT playing ugly football. We pass it very well but we do it progressively. We mix and mash, whereas Arsenal has only one pattern of play which won them nothing.

We always played like that. Maybe you're young and never saw the other Liverpool sides play ?

[Rashid]

I don't care if we win and we're NOT playing ugly football. We pass it very well but we do it progressively. We mix and mash, whereas Arsenal has only one pattern of play which won them nothing.

We always played like that. Maybe you're young and never saw the other Liverpool sides play ?

Liverpool have always in the past (70's and 80's) been able to keep the ball, keep composed and shut up opposition fans. We didn't hoof it like we do now and we certainly played football as good as any team of that era. Name me an English side or a side in Europe that played better football than us in the late 70s'. People called us mechanical but that's due to our winning mentality. Plus it isn't easy playing pass and move on a lump of mud but we still played better than most.

In the early 80's we played good football, we had width, we had a stong defence, and who can forget both Hansen and Lawrenson's marauding runs into the opposition half? Not to mention the superb link up play of Kenny Dalglish... we had everything. I certainly don't remember Hansen hoofing it much...

Then there was the pinnacle with the team of 1988. LFC is built on pass and move, not gung ho but pass and move, simple effective football. Not the ale house brand that started in 1998.

[Guest]

Liverpool have always in the past (70's and 80's) been able to keep the ball, keep composed and shut up opposition fans. We didn't hoof it like we do now and we certainly played football as good as any team of that era. Name me an English side or a side in Europe that played better football than us in the late 70s'. People called us mechanical but that's due to our winning mentality. Plus it isn't easy playing pass and move on a lump of mud but we still played better than most.

In the early 80's we played good football, we had width, we had a stong defence, and who can forget both Hansen and Lawrenson's marauding runs into the opposition half? Not to mention the superb link up play of Kenny Dalglish... we had everything. I certainly don't remember Hansen hoofing it much...

Then there was the pinnacle with the team of 1988. LFC is built on pass and move, not gung ho but pass and move, simple effective football. Not the ale house brand that started in 1998.

You need to understand that football has changed now. And we still pass it.

[Rashid]

You need to understand that football has changed now. And we still pass it.

Football has changed but the passing elements remain, we don't pass it as well as our rivals or as well our history demands, Since 1988 we have been a defensive ale house team who have won things on hard work, determination, genius tactics by Rafa and reliance on our star players.

Over the past 5 years the CL has been won by Liverpool, Milan, Barcelona and Manchester United - 3 of those teams play pass and move football - the latter two making it a club strategy.

Chelsea will this season be the team to beat as finally they have decided to change their style of play to suit the quality of players they have.

Anyway I have said enough on this matter, it ****ing winds me up.

[Gazmo1]

We played some great football during the first 15 minutes, in patches. It's not for the lack of trying you know. We had an International break in the week and some players are not 100% so that could explain it no ????

Fair point well made, that I never fully appreciated until Thursday.

I had the pleasure of sharing a flight from Copenhagen to Manchester with Torres, Reina, Agger and Alonso on Thursday morning. All the lads looked totally ****ed with Reina not evening standing up bit sat on a set of stairs half asleep.

We didn't even notice then until my missus heard a Danish voice speaking English asking his other mate how many he'd scored now. That person turned out to be Xabi who was stood next to Torres.

After having a laugh with Xabi about how good his Danish was we all boarded and I sent the missus down to ask them to sign my Brian Reade book (I was way too nervous at this point). When she got down there they were all snoring!

In my opinion, and being fairly experienced when it comes to travellling IT DOES take it out of you. The time difference, sleeping in a different bed, living out of a suitcase, different training methods, different people......and this is just 4 players, Oh and add playing a game of football into that mix too.

Fortunately in the end got to speak with all the players when we landed in Manchester and now have a signed Brian Reade book. A top bunch of lads who made my day despite us all being on the first flight out of Denmark and feeling ****ed.

I'm really tiring of the negative slant that all Rashids posts and threads take on. If you have such an issue with the team and such an anti Rafa stance why not **** off somewhere else to preach. It will get to the stage where I, and others I'm sure, move on from EST because I'm sick of being visually raped after each game by such dross. The problem is now Rashid is that even when you make a 'semi' valid point it is looked past because of the amount of opinionated ****e you spout.

2 games in, 2 wins against the types of teams we'd have dropped points against last year. From memory we dropped points away at Boro. Get behind the team eh?

[Gazmo1]

Can we get away from this idea that it's a "new" thing... it's not. We play this brand of football all the time. I have heard every excuse from "champions win ugly" to now "it was international week".

Our passing, movement and composure is ale house. We have some fantastic players, we need to get them to play football not stratego.

Just because popular opinion doesn't conform with your way of thinking doesn't make it wrong. You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. BUT, if you are saying that 'good sides don't win ugly' or 'international week' have no bearing on anything then you really are wide of the mark.

Some of our players took part in a very major tournament over the summer playing in every single game it had to offer. Then as a result took an extended break therefore not training with the rest of the squad until later in the summer.

But obviously this has no bearing with you because it doesn't affect United, Arsenal or Chelsea does it? Because we have spend as much, their players play in internationals and every time they win they take teams apart every week.

You confuse me Rash, you really do. I don't know if your agenda is Anti Rafa, Anti Liverpool or Anti the world or whether you are sad man with no friends who wants to make an alter ego for himself on the internet so he feels wanted.

[Guest]

Rashid will always have an agenda. Looking at how he sees things at this particular moment in time, I think he privileges playing beautiful football over winning.

It's a quality to be able to win when not playing well. And we DO play beautiful passing football at times, like yesterday in patches, most notably the little interaction play between Nando and Keane when Keane put in a beautiful reverse pass for Torres to miss. That's fantastic football for me. I don't know how Rashid sees the game of football.