Is it bad luck or is it lack of talent?

[reds123]

The last 4 years it had been the same old story. 'Small" teams come to Anfield, play 11 behind the ball and there is a sense of frustration among the players. (and supporters) Confidence has been low because technically we still lack behind other big teams. The wings has been a disaster and only thanks to Gerrard and in the majority of the cases (last year Torres as well) Liverpool has shown belief and got results.

We always say - it's luck mate. or the referee... but yesterday we had another 88 minutes to play and Sorensen only made 2 great saves!!! So while many including me try to think that it is bad luck, let's face the reality; creatively we are not good enough.

Asrenal for instance lack experience but technically they are so gifted that I compare their football to ours in 1987/88.

Teams will come to Anfiled and play like Stoke, Boro and Standard Liege! The test will come if Rafa will make Liverpool produce some magic not only good results but also in the way of playing football! I think that Those of us who remember the John Barnes era (20 years ago) will agree with this.

[Rashid]

It's the coaching, obviously having more on more world class players in the team will up us to pull games out of the hat more often but at the end of the day the managers needs to coach the players into playing well against packed defences.

We need to start dominating in games where the onus is on us to win, not just beating teams against the odds in two legs.

I will say it till I am blue in the face but Rafa's style of play is to blame no matter what players we have in the team.

[Nicey]

We are joint 2nd with Chelsea, 1 point behind Arsenal and what is it 6 points ahead of Man United .. Arsenal have been beaten by Fulham, Man U held to a draw at home by Newcastle and we were held to a Draw by a very decent Stoke side .. opportunity missed but as many of the more astute posters have pointed out .. really it boilds down to your performance against the top 4 that really matters

[Rashid]

we were held to a Draw by a very decent Stoke side ..

[Finnish_Red]

It's the coaching, obviously having more on more world class players in the team will up us to pull games out of the hat more often but at the end of the day the managers needs to coach the players into playing well against packed defences.

We need to start dominating in games where the onus is on us to win, not just beating teams against the odds in two legs.

I will say it till I am blue in the face but Rafa's style of play is to blame no matter what players we have in the team.

Sorry, but you just can't blame the style of play here. We had plenty of chances to score plus a legimate goal disallowed. Like it or not, as long as the game is played with a round ball these games will happen from time to time.

[Rashid]

We never opened them up when you consider that we had the ball 76% of the time - we huffed and puffed and made scrappy openings. There no method to our attacking...

[Craig_H]

We are joint 2nd with Chelsea, 1 point behind Arsenal and what is it 6 points ahead of Man United .. Arsenal have been beaten by Fulham, Man U held to a draw at home by Newcastle and we were held to a Draw by a very decent Stoke side .. opportunity missed but as many of the more astute posters have pointed out .. really it boilds down to your performance against the top 4 that really matters

We're not joint 2nd, we're 3rd. If the league ended now, we would be in the CL qualifiers next year, not straight into the group stages.

Stoke, very decent? Dear lord.

And it doesnt boil down to the performances against the top four unless you beat the also-rans.

[Craig_H]

Sorry, but you just can't blame the style of play here. We had plenty of chances to score plus a legimate goal disallowed. Like it or not, as long as the game is played with a round ball these games will happen from time to time.

If we continue to attack without tempo, teams will find it easy to defend against us. For all those shots, we forced ONE good save out of the keeper.

Shooting from 25 yards all the time doesnt mean you've created proper, outright chances.

[Tee]

NOrmally I would have said our style of football, i.e. definitive lack of pass and move football to open up defences would be to blame.

However, having watched yesterdays game it is clear that we created many clear goalscoring opportunities and on another day we could have had 5 or 6. I will just put it down to one of those days and congratulate Stoke on a very well earned point.

I really hope Rafa keeps on sending the team out with the same mentality to attack and make spaces with movement, and thus score shedloads of goals.

[Craig_H]

NOrmally I would have said our style of football, i.e. definitive lack of pass and move football to open up defences would be to blame.

However, having watched yesterdays game it is clear that we created many clear goalscoring opportunities and on another day we could have had 5 or 6. I will just put it down to one of those days and congratulate Stoke on a very well earned point.

I really hope Rafa keeps on sending the team out with the same mentality to attack and make spaces with movement, and thus score shedloads of goals.

But we didnt. Name the 'many clear goalscoring opportunities' we had.

I dont think we created more than maybe two or three CLEAR chances.

[Finnish_Red]

If we continue to attack without tempo, teams will find it easy to defend against us. For all those shots, we forced ONE good save out of the keeper.

Shooting from 25 yards all the time doesnt mean you've created proper, outright chances.

What about the chances that fell to Keane & Torres? Hardly shots from 25 yards were they?

[Vermilion]

You know............ at least we didn't lose, which happens in games like this one sometimes, just to make the injustice complete, so i'll take a point and say.....please please god oh please please can this Stoke result just be a sort of penance........before the great reward.........the gift...... that will be..... the total destruction of the Bitter Bitter ****s next week.

[Craig_H]

What about the chances that fell to Keane & Torres? Hardly shots from 25 yards were they?

There werent clear cut chances, with us having 'carved them open' though.

The Torres header was the best chance and on another day would've gone in, but the Keane ones were snap-shot half chances.

[Craig_H]

You know............ at least we didn't lose, which happens in games like this one sometimes, just to make the injustice complete, so i'll take a point and say.....please please god oh please please can this Stoke result just be a sort of penance........before the great reward.........the gift...... that will be..... the total destruction of the Bitter Bitter ****s next week.

Mate, this is Stoke at Anfield. At least we didnt lose?? Is that how low our expectations have got?

[Reece]

But we didnt. Name the 'many clear goalscoring opportunities' we had.

I dont think we created more than maybe two or three CLEAR chances.

Keane hit two straight at the keeper from inside the box. Torres Headed one wide which he should have at the very least got on target.

Not sure how many "CLEAR" chances you can expect when a team is basically defending with all their players in the box.