Is it bad luck or is it lack of talent?

[MrMichael]

Meh.

Depends on the severity, context, provocation, and prior posting history I guess. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, ultimately its just judgement calls which for right or wrong, I and the other mods get to make.

[Craig_H]

The grey-area get-out clause

[Guest]

Agree totally with what you said there. I think two quality wingers were the priority after a left-back and right-back. Right back problem was not solved and neither was the right wing.

Any 'quality' or 'world class' player as you say wouldn't be able to break down an 11 men defense, not when they were as close to their goalkeeper as Stoke defended on Saturday. There wasn't much space to 'play' in. We had numerous chances to win the game FFS and it's not down to a lack of quality. You're insipid Sarb. Go somewhere else.

[Craig_H]

Fredo, dont you think though that our movement of the ball was a little too slow and methodical? The way to combat that kind of defending is quick movement of the ball to create space and then take advantage of it. Arsenal do it regularly, fast movement, quick passes, sometimes one-touch and it carves open defences beautifully.

If we did more of that, teams like Stoke wouldnt be able to shut us out like that.

[Guest]

Fredo, dont you think though that our movement of the ball was a little too slow and methodical? The way to combat that kind of defending is quick movement of the ball to create space and then take advantage of it. Arsenal do it regularly, fast movement, quick passes, sometimes one-touch and it carves open defences beautifully.

If we did more of that, teams like Stoke wouldnt be able to shut us out like that.

But we created enough chances to win the ****ing game on Saturday so what's the point of all that. It's always the same tedious arguments which doesn't hold any proper reasoning whatsoever.

Firstly if that goal was allowed we would have won by a cricket score.

I can't stand the negativity. We beat United and everything is rosy then have a fluke result against Stoke and all the vultures are back at it.

I've had enough of this anyway ... I better go off and do something productive rather than discuss pointless arguments on a football forum.

[MrMichael]

This one just isn't simple black and white for me Fredo. Those cast as "negative" mostly do have a point, that so far this season, the scum game being a notable exception, our overall quality of play has not been that high, and imo, not of the standard we were seeing towards the end of last season. I tend to agree with what Craig just said about quick ball movement, even taking the Stoke result out of the equation it would still be nice to see us able to play at a higher tempo in games where the opposition play in a very compact style. However, those cast as rcdnw or whatever nonsense, also have a point, we've still had a good start to the season in terms of points, and if we can avoid any more silly slip ups, get our strikers in form and play with a consistent fluidity, we could still have a good season to look forward to. Ultimately what everyone wants is to see a really successful team entertaining and exciting us, and winning...... lots..... I just think its natural that some people tend to primarily fear we're not quite there yet again, and some primarily hope we as yet will prove to be.

[Craig_H]

I'm not even that fussed about the entertainment, as long as we win! The title will be exciting enough even if we turn into a 1-0 machine!

[MrMichael]

Amen to that

[Nicey]

Oh yeah sorry I forgot .. its stoke right .. they are ****.. my bad .. the same **** side who beat Villa .. who are were exactly in the table right now ?

But thats right .. we just had to show up and take the 3 points right cause its Stoke ..

You have to earn your points, we were unlucky not to win that game, we had a goal disallowed and there keeper made some fantastic saves on another day we beat them 4 nil and all you ****ers and tripping over yourselfs with ****ing superlatives

[MrsB]

I think there is some disrespect shown to how Stoke have played this season. They managed to beat Villa and were unlucky to get beat by the bitters. You could also point out that they are only 1 point behind Scum. No excuses just facts. Yesterday i would put it down to bad luck.

I agree. They're not that easy to beat. Stoke lost only nine games in the Championship last season, two less than West Brom. They drew to the Baggies away and beat them at thome.

[Woobus]

All that was missing from Saturday was having 2 strikers on form, both Keane and Torres arent their usual selfs. If they had of both been on form then we would have won the match easily.

[tomasjj]

Lack of talent, and also lack of application from both players and managers approach.

[slimbimjim]

It's not luck, you make you're own luck.

I don't know what it is, lack of Killer instinct? Lack of match-winners (we have 2 in Gerrard and Torres but we need more), lack of a plan B (width)?

Whatever it is, Rafa needs to get it right sooner rather than later

Since when did one game reflect a full 38 game season? FFS let's judge after 15 or 20 games eh?

One swallow does not make a summer mate (except the opposite).

[calvoboy]

I'm not worried at all after the Stoke game. We battered them, and were very very unlucky. It's nothing like the Birmingham game from last season, or even the Wigan one. If we'd played badly and/or they had a remote chance of stealing it then I'd be worried. But you do have these sorts of games from time to time, even in a title winning season. True, we can't afford to have too many more of them, but I'm much happier with the way we are playing now, and with the balance of the team.

Makes hammering the blue****e even more important though to get the momentum back!

[IanTatt]

We are one of the top teams in europe and have some outstanding players. But we will alway struggle because we don't have enough flair players. Against stoke we had kuyt and riera out wide, that's embarassing to say the least. We need players who are comfortable on the ball and able to prod and probe and play fast one touch football to unlock tight defences..... Would klinsman play kuty and riera, I don't think so, anyway, I'm getting carried away because I'm so ****** off it's untrue... Rafa, start playing attacking positive football... you have been here since 2004 for ***** sake. We have played 7 competitive matched this season and been diabolical in all of them, apart from utd, play them when they are playing well and it would have been a different story...