Man City V Liverpool - Post Match Celebrations and ZOMG Sensible Debate!!!11

[rage]

its not just my description of how bad we were...its Steven Gerrard's

i know BUT it was the best team that gerrard had ever played in regardless of how bad he thought it was.

i also remember gerrard backing houllier all the way

[nbryan1764]

i know BUT it was the best team that gerrard had ever played in regardless of how bad he thought it was.

i also remember gerrard backing houllier all the way

the side that Rafa inherited was nowhere near the best side that Gerrard had ever played in.

[rage]

the side that Rafa inherited was nowhere near the best side that Gerrard had ever played in.

really? at the time it was a side that had only recently won a cup treble, finished 2nd in the league etc.

i don't recall gerrard having played in a better side in his career at that point.

[nbryan1764]

really? at the time it was a side that had only recently won a cup treble, finished 2nd in the league etc.

i don't recall gerrard having played in a better side in his career at that point.

thats funny, i dont recall winning a treble and finishing second in 2004??? the side that Rafa inherited never did either of those things

[rage]

thats funny, i dont recall winning a treble and finishing second in 2004??? the side that Rafa inherited never did either of those things

why what were the differences. mcallister and who else?

[nbryan1764]

why what were the differences. mcallister and who else?

really? you don't know? and you are laughing as if I am stupid?

[nbryan1764]

why what were the differences. mcallister and who else?

Team v Arsenal (FA Cup Final 2001)

Westerveld ,Babbel ,Henchoz ,Hyypia ,Carragher ,Murphy (Berger ,77 ) ,Gerrard ,Hamann (McAllister ,60 ) ,Smicer (Fowler ,77 ) ,Heskey ,Owen

Team v Alaves (UEFA Cup Final 2001)

Westerveld ,Babbel ,Henchoz (Smicer ,56 ) ,Hyypia ,Carragher ,Gerrard ,Murphy ,Hamann ,McAllister ,Owen (Berger ,79 ) ,Heskey (Fowler ,64)

Team v Charlton (Final Game 2001)

Westerveld ,Vignal ,Babbel ,Hyypia ,Carragher ,Barmby (Murphy ,54 ) ,McAllister ,Gerrard ,Berger (Heskey ,89 ) ,Owen ,Fowler

Only Mcallister? Are you sure?

[Migselv]

were diouf, and diao still there in 2004?

and Mcallister was a significant difference. The 2001 squad was good, but played boring, effective football. We didn't deserve to win the FA cup and league cup. Arsenal outplayed us, but lost. Barcelona had outplayed us earlier that year, but lost.

These days we tend to outplay our opponents (especially in Europe), that rarely happened under houllier against the big teams. Try and find a copy of those matches, and it's obvious how much we have improved since then.

[rage]

really? you don't know? and you are laughing as if I am stupid?

why would i be laughing at you as if you were stupid? i was laughing because i felt that rafa did not inherit an awful team but one that virtually player for player won 3 cups and finished second only a few years earlier.

rafa inherited a team that came 4th. we'd qualified for the champions league and whilst not competing were not exactly on our knees.

i remember a banner in the kop during the end of houllier where it said not good enough...compete for the league.

the season before it fell apart for houllier many thought we were a duff away from competing but houllier threw away anelka and blew money on diao, diouf and cheroue.

it wasn't that bad a squad and i still think it was as good a squad as any that gerrard had played in.

[barnes10]

winning the league is always a different ball game than before. its all relative. i didn't know that rafa's winning % in the league was the same as furguson although he has been at it 3 times longer i suppose.

i agree that rafa had to spend money BUT i don't think it was as bad as you describe. we won the champions league with the addition of 2 players.

and a **** load of tactical nous.

[barnes10]

no bilic (sp?) the bloke who made mclaren look a fool before mclaren went abroad and forgot how to speak english in under a month and made himself look more of a fool than anyone else could ever have.

i think hiddink still has one last battle left in him BUT on current form rafa is probably in his best form with us as he ever has been. just hope we can turn over wigan and the chelsea game will be hugely significant.

if we were really in the dolrums and say, spurs' position, i can see that we would move for someone unproven but that has something about them.

but bilic basically hasnt done anything. underwhelmed since they qualified for the Euros at our expense.

so the man has had a top qualification run for a tournament. and thats it.

he's also a bitter blue...

[rage]

dudek was better than westerveld. babbel was amazing i'll give you that. heskey - well loads wanted him out so i think the team was better without him. owen was still here when gerrard made his comments, berger and barmby were good squad players but berger was just as injured as kewell who was at the time a better replacement and barmby wasn't exactly brilliant.

of the players you've highlighted i think that mcallister and babbel (legend) were not replaced by better players. fowler was finished, even by 2001 and players like henchoz, hypia, carra, finnan all got better by the time rafa arrived

[rage]

and a **** load of tactical nous.

completely agree.

[nbryan1764]

dudek was better than westerveld. babbel was amazing i'll give you that. heskey - well loads wanted him out so i think the team was better without him. owen was still here when gerrard made his comments, berger and barmby were good squad players but berger was just as injured as kewell who was at the time a better replacement and barmby wasn't exactly brilliant.

of the players you've highlighted i think that mcallister and babbel (legend) were not replaced by better players. fowler was finished, even by 2001 and players like henchoz, hypia, carra, finnan all got better by the time rafa arrived

Heskey :in 2004 yes because he was nowhere near the player he was in 2001
Owen: he may have been but do we know that he wasnt going? He was def in his last yr of his contract
Fowler: def wasn't finished during that 2001 season and we def did not have anyone that could be classes as our third choice striker who was anywhere near his level
Henchoz: Definitely not the player he was in 2001

Hyppia could be argued and i would not say either way. IMO he wa no better, no worse.

Carra don't forget was not not the player he was under Houllier that he was under Rafa

Bergar and Barmby squad players? Yes but far better ones than Diao, Diouf, or Cheyrou

This is a pretty dumb debate to be honest. I honestly cannot believe that anyone could truly say that the squad that Rafa inherited was better than the 2001 squad. If they were then there some serious issues in there because the 2004 team were bloody awful to watch...horrible

[rage]

Heskey :in 2004 yes because he was nowhere near the player he was in 2001
Owen: he may have been but do we know that he wasnt going? He was def in his last yr of his contract
Fowler: def wasn't finished during that 2001 season and we def did not have anyone that could be classes as our third choice striker who was anywhere near his level
Henchoz: Definitely not the player he was in 2001

Hyppia could be argued and i would not say either way. IMO he wa no better, no worse.

Carra don't forget was not not the player he was under Houllier that he was under Rafa

Bergar and Barmby squad players? Yes but far better ones than Diao, Diouf, or Cheyrou

This is a pretty dumb debate to be honest. I honestly cannot believe that anyone could truly say that the squad that Rafa inherited was better than the 2001 squad. If they were then there some serious issues in there because the 2004 team were bloody awful to watch...horrible

i think that was more to do with tactics rather than players. as rafa proved by winning the champions league with the 2004 team with the addition of cisse, alonso and garcia