Man City V Liverpool - Post Match Celebrations and ZOMG Sensible Debate!!!11

[nbryan1764]

i think that was more to do with tactics rather than players. as rafa proved by winning the champions league with the 2004 team with the addition of cisse, alonso and garcia

I have made my opinion and it was to back out the statement that the 2004 squad was NOT better than the 2001 one. No point in debating that further as I will not change that opinion...we lacked too much quality that was evident in 2001. The side that Rafa inherited was NOT the best one that Gerrard had played in

[rage]

I have made my opinion and it was to back out the statement that the 2004 squad was NOT better than the 2001 one. No point in debating that further as I will not change that opinion...we lacked too much quality that was evident in 2001. The side that Rafa inherited was NOT the best one that Gerrard had played in

that is your opinion.

[nbryan1764]

that is your opinion.

I am sure it is not only mine.

[barnes10]

i think that was more to do with tactics rather than players. as rafa proved by winning the champions league with the 2004 team with the addition of cisse, alonso and garcia

i think the 01 team was houlliers best by a long way. we really never recovered after the summer of 02. it all went pear shaped. balance, skill levels, everything just hit the floor.

we were sh1te.

rafa comes in. adds some quality, works on tactics and plays to our strengths over what, 17 or so games in the CL and that, as they say, is history.

we finished behind everton in the league that season too remember so istanbul papered over some serious cracks.

[barnes10]

that is your opinion.

highlighting the team rafa inherited. you talk about being an away goal form the CL semis. well wasnt that against bayer? in 2002? which was basicaly the 01 side we're saying was the best gerrard played in until now?

I would say that this season is looking like the best side he's played in with the 01 side after that. then last seasons side and beyond that its much of a muchness as none were in any way very good.

[nbryan1764]

highlighting the team rafa inherited. you talk about being an away goal form the CL semis. well wasnt that against bayer? in 2002? which was basicaly the 01 side we're saying was the best gerrard played in until now?

I would say that this season is looking like the best side he's played in with the 01 side after that. then last seasons side and beyond that its much of a muchness as none were in any way very good.

no he is saying the 2004 side was the best side gerrard had played in at the time that Rafa took over

[barnes10]

no he is saying the 2004 side was the best side gerrard had played in at the time that Rafa took over

surely not. 01/02 was GH's best squad by a country mile.

[Reece]

This thread had gone down the route of some good constructive debate, lets please not have it go back to resorting to insults.

[rage]

no he is saying the 2004 side was the best side gerrard had played in at the time that Rafa took over

the 2004 team player for player was at least as good as the 2001 team imo. the difference being that houllier had lost his bottle and other teams had worked out our one dimensional hoof it to owen tactics.

gerrard's quote of 'you don't know how bad it is' is really where this discussion started and my opinion really is that it wasn't as bad as gerrard made out because gerrard hadn't played in a liverpool team that had been so much if at allbetter than the team of 2004.

[Skillz]

i think Mourinho is a fantastic motivater and thinker, who gets the best out of great players.

Tactically he shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as Benitez.

i dont believe that he could turn a **** squad into a great squad which is what Benitez has basically done

Totally agree with that. If Rafa left us for whatever reason and none of his signings went with him I would agree that Jose is as good as anyone to takeover and get us the title. However Rafa won't leave us and I sure as hell do not want him too, this is his team and it's all about to happen for us and him (Rafa)

Hiddink.

But I'd far rather have Rafa

As an Aussie I can attest to Hiddink's ability, he's bloody good. Like you though, Rafa is the master. It's his destiny, IMO

and after he came we won the champions league and we have finished second, I know which I prefer.

IMO we are way ahead in terms of quality to where we were when Rafa took over. However, so are many of the other teams so the bar has definitely risen. As an example, before last season,only one tam had finished fourth with more than 70 points over the past ten years, and that was Newcastle with 71. Last season we finished with 76.

The fact of the matter is that winning the league is a whole different ball game to where it was when we were winning it so regularly. Benitez's winning percentage is higher than Paisley's, Britain's most successful manager, and is on a par with old whisky nose down the road, so he must be doing something right.

I feel that we don't actually appreciate what we have. IMO he has done a similar job to Ferguson when he was in his first 5 years at the Mancs. He slowly but surely got rid of the **** and then had a team as he wanted. He was a little fortunate in that he had such o good crop of youngsters but nevertheless still had to virtually rebuild. Rafa has done the same. People spout off about the money he has spent but the fact is, he had to. We were dire. Gerrard's quote to Rafa on his first day "you don't realise how bad we are". Well I cannot imagine anyone saying that to him now! Progress...what progress?

Excellant post.

[lfc1394]

the 2004 team player for player was at least as good as the 2001 team imo. the difference being that houllier had lost his bottle and other teams had worked out our one dimensional hoof it to owen tactics.

gerrard's quote of 'you don't know how bad it is' is really where this discussion started and my opinion really is that it wasn't as bad as gerrard made out because gerrard hadn't played in a liverpool team that had been so much if at allbetter than the team of 2004.

Man for man is arguable, but form is not. In 2001 Heskey and Barmby were on fire. Fowler was still scoring goals despite his lack of 1st team starts, Mcallister was magic, Babbel was the best right back we've had in the modern era. There were goals in that side, Owen, Fowler, Heskey, Berger, Gary Mac, Barmby, Babbel, Gerrard could all score. Look at the team in 04 and tell me how many goal scoreres there were?

[rage]

Man for man is arguable, but form is not. In 2001 Heskey and Barmby were on fire. Fowler was still scoring goals despite his lack of 1st team starts, Mcallister was magic, Babbel was the best right back we've had in the modern era. There were goals in that side, Owen, Fowler, Heskey, Berger, Gary Mac, Barmby, Babbel, Gerrard could all score. Look at the team in 04 and tell me how many goal scoreres there were?

owen err owen er gerrard, heskey & baros (sometimes). actually the way you show it just reminded me what a missed opportunity the squad of 2001 was.

[nbryan1764]

owen err owen er gerrard, heskey & baros (sometimes). actually the way you show it just reminded me what a missed opportunity the squad of 2001 was.

Michael Owen 19
Emile Heskey 12
Harry Kewell 11
Danny Murphy 8
Steven Gerrard 6
Sami Hyypia 5
Bruno Cheyrou 4

Not much there really is it - 2003/04 scorers

Goals per game in that season

Michael Owen .5
Emile Heskey .26
Harry Kewell .22
Bruno Cheyrou .22
Danny Murphy .19


Pretty crap really

[rage]

Michael Owen 19
Emile Heskey 12
Harry Kewell 11
Danny Murphy 8
Steven Gerrard 6
Sami Hyypia 5
Bruno Cheyrou 4

Not much there really is it - 2003/04 scorers

Goals per game in that season

Michael Owen .5
Emile Heskey .26
Harry Kewell .22
Bruno Cheyrou .22
Danny Murphy .19


Pretty crap really

where did bruno score 4 goals. what a signing. he was too scared to get mud on his white boots to worry about playing any football

[nbryan1764]

where did bruno score 4 goals. what a signing. he was too scared to get mud on his white boots to worry about playing any football

He had a spell if I recall where he scored against Chelsea, Newcastle in the Cup (2??) and Newcastle in the league??

Nevertheless its crap - top 5 scorers in 2004 scored a combined 56, top 5 in 2001 combined 83