Man City V Liverpool - Post Match Celebrations and ZOMG Sensible Debate!!!11

[Craig_H]

I may be a new poster , but i am a soccer coach and have the experiance of winning titles and cups at a top level (albeit youth soccer) and have supported this club for 20 odd years .

It is too easy to say things like - "we need to start better" without having a true understanding off the game .

Its all good to go out guns blazing but what rafa is trying to do is build a team that can "adapt" to any situation tactically while at the same time showing passion , belief and drive"

you need a plan b and a plan c , so that in the case of a bad start you can turn it around and win.

No team wins every game

You almost sound as if you're saying we went 2-0 down deliberately, in order to see if we could 'adapt' to the situation, and more worryingly, you're giving off the impression that you feel it's something we should not only be happy about, but should want to see happening more often.

It's very rare that we'll come back from 2-0 down at HT to win the game and i for one would rather we didnt make a habit of playing in a manner that causes us to be in that situation.

Having said that, the only fault i could find with Rafa yesterday was that our players heads dropped and we didnt show enough fight for the last 20 mins of the 1st half. He did sort this out at half time though and deserves plenty of credit for that second half performance.

[Scratch]

Likewise, there are also some who see everything as positive all the time, no matter what happens and constantly post accordingly, sometimes coming across as a bit dillusional (to some) and i imagine the likes of rage and co are also bored of it, get it and dont need to hear about it every other time it's posted.

They dont tend to get abusive though and those who do could easily make their points without the name calling and abuse (which is equally as boring to read). Do you not agree?

Not really no, cos i'm coming onto a Liverpool site because i love the club...if i wanted to read over-the-top reactions, or negative rants, I'd go to a Manc site, or some blue****e site.

Like i say, yes, these posters have a negative outlook, but please, not in every thread...and especially not half way through a match day thread...it gives those looking for ammo a great reason to have another go, and the threads descend into lunacy again.

[Craig_H]

Not really no, cos i'm coming onto a Liverpool site because i love the club...if i wanted to read over-the-top reactions, or negative rants, I'd go to a Manc site, or some blue****e site.

Like i say, yes, these posters have a negative outlook, but please, not in every thread...and especially not half way through a match day thread...it gives those looking for ammo a great reason to have another go, and the threads descend into lunacy again.

Yet again then, we have a difference of opinion. I too love the club, but i see no value in the 'head in sand' kind of outlook that a small minority put across, whereby every single decision from the management is spot on, and the notion that they never make mistakes.

Your idea of negative rants is different to mine, although i do see where you're coming from, but i dont see the likes of rage and rashid's posts as emphatically 'negative' as you do.

Regarding the match thread, i would agree with you on that one 100%, mainly because it takes the purpose of that particular thread off track.

There is also a group of posters whose sole existence here seems to be to stalk rage, rashid etc and do nothing but abuse them. That's pathetic and adds nothing to the forum.

[alexjamestodd]

Its a case of "thats the beauty of football" - we didnt start badly , kuyt should of scored , we had lots of possession and city scored their only real chances.

Sometimes you have to deal with the cards you are given and adapt accordingly - some times it does come down to one of either side having more "luck than the other team"

Of course I dont want us to start badly but you must remember that rafa did not tell us to concede the two goals , but he did tell them at half time what was required to win the game . No manager could have told the players exactly what to do to not concede - no team has ever gone a whole season without conceding - you have to keep things in perspective and always be positive

[pondus]

Yet again then, we have a difference of opinion. I too love the club, but i see no value in the 'head in sand' kind of outlook that a small minority put across, whereby every single decision from the management is spot on, and the notion that they never make mistakes.

Your idea of negative rants is different to mine, although i do see where you're coming from, but i dont see the likes of rage and rashid's posts as emphatically 'negative' as you do.

Regarding the match thread, i would agree with you on that one 100%, mainly because it takes the purpose of that particular thread off track.

There is also a group of posters whose sole existence here seems to be to stalk rage, rashid etc and do nothing but abuse them. That's pathetic and adds nothing to the forum.

Don't think you will find ONE poster who has said that

[Craig_H]

Its a case of "thats the beauty of football" - we didnt start badly , kuyt should of scored , we had lots of possession and city scored their only real chances.

Sometimes you have to deal with the cards you are given and adapt accordingly - some times it does come down to one of either side having more "luck than the other team"

Of course I dont want us to start badly but you must remember that rafa did not tell us to concede the two goals , but he did tell them at half time what was required to win the game . No manager could have told the players exactly what to do to not concede - no team has ever gone a whole season without conceding - you have to keep things in perspective and always be positive

I dont think you have to 'always be positive', that's just unrealistic.

I agree with you that teams do concede goals and things do sometimes go wrong, there's no such thing as perfection. Rage's point (i think) is that it needs to be the exception, rather than the rule, because overturning such a HT defecit isnt something that we'll do on a regular basis, so we need to make sure we dont get into that situation too often. I wouldnt argue with that. Would you?

[alexjamestodd]

The only major problem at this club is still the owners.

Its okay to not always be positive but if you critiisize then you must be prepared to offer a solution

[Craig_H]

Don't think you will find ONE poster who has said that

No poster has 'said' that, but there's a couple or three, who will never ever acknowledge that rafa's made a mistake, and no matter how strange a decision might look, will always claim that it was actually a master stroke.
In short, they'll refuse to acknowledge that Rafa is human and makes mistakes.

It's increasingly impossible to take such a viewpoint seriously.

[Craig_H]

The only major problem at this club is still the owners.

Its okay to not always be positive but if you critiisize then you must be prepared to offer a solution

I agree with you but to be honest, most of the criticisms i've seen from rage, have also included an alternative way of doing things.

[alexjamestodd]

thats good if an alternative is offered but if the solution is a bad one , then we do have the right to say "you dont know what you are talking about"

If Rashid is really as good at this whole soccer business as you think then I would love to see him get his coaches badges , work his way up through the leagues and then managa liverpool one day.

Its not an attack on an individual , you have to understand that rafa knows this game many times better than all off us and that his how his trophy cabinet is nicely full

[Craig_H]

thats good if an alternative is offered but if the solution is a bad one , then we do have the right to say "you dont know what you are talking about"

If Rashid is really as good at this whole soccer business as you think then I would love to see him get his coaches badges , work his way up through the leagues and then managa liverpool one day.

Its not an attack on an individual , you have to understand that rafa knows this game many times better than all off us and that his how his trophy cabinet is nicely full

But it's about opinions though, isnt it? Who's to say the alternative is a bad one?

You might think someone doesnt know what they're talking about, but someone else might think you're clueless too. That's how it works.

Of course Rafa knows the game more than any of us, nobody's disputed that but he will still get some things wrong and people are still entitled to express an opinion, whether they have coaching badges or not. If nobody without coaching badges was allowed to express their view, there'd be about 2 people on this forum.

Having coaching badges and trophies in cabinets doesnt make someone always right, you only need to look at Juande Ramos to realise that.

There's no problem with disagreeing with people, i just find it boring when it's just abuse and name calling half the time. Backing an opinion up with an insult doesnt really validate it in my view. It's just about accepting that different opinions will exist and being able to accept this and respect other people's rights to a different viewpoint.

[red g]

not in the habit of leaving early and IF all i ever did was kick the team when their down then tens of thousands like me would stop going to the games.

i support the team and will still support the team when the likes of rafa are long gone.

But how can you support a team without being positive....i can see where u e coming from, you dont want Rafa as you have said. I think you begrudgingly give credit and think its not down to rafa more to luck.

[nbryan1764]

How many times is it likely that we'd come back from 2-0 down? All rage is saying is that we need to make sure we dont get into that situation too often.

Some people need to grow up and improve their vocabulary.

'fook off' indeed

How many times have we had to? It is not common for us to be 2-0 down especially at half time. It is to our (collective) credit then when it happened we had strength of character to pull it round. There are lots of things that make a good team, and a few more that make a great team. The ability to turn things around is one of them. Rather than cry about the fact that we were 2-0 we should rejoice in the fact that we have a team with the ability, and the strength of character to win the game.

[Craig_H]

How many times have we had to? It is not common for us to be 2-0 down especially at half time. It is to our (collective) credit then when it happened we had strength of character to pull it round. There are lots of things that make a good team, and a few more that make a great team. The ability to turn things around is one of them. Rather than cry about the fact that we were 2-0 we should rejoice in the fact that we have a team with the ability, and the strength of character to win the game.

I think we should look at both the positives and the negatives.

[nbryan1764]

I think we should look at both the positives and the negatives.

I agree, but seriously, what were the negatives yesterday? How far do you go to assess the negatives? I look at the result on the whole, then the performance. If we win then we win simple as, if we don't but have played well then it can be palletable. After then then its doom but it doesn't tend to happen that often.