PSV 1-3 Liverpool- Post Match

[Neil Young]

Hey I had your health at heart

You're thoughtful. I like that.

[rudedog]

why is it comedy gold. thats exactly how i see it and if you you look back to the beginning of the season thats how many posters saw it.

infact i even think rafa knows this hence why he's anglig for an extension whilst we're doing well. that way if we fail he's in a stronger position.

anyway i'd replied to niel as he doesn't have the blind love condition that others suffer from which is why i didn't want to come across as being negative or provocative. i just think this is the way it is. win the title or get sacked.

Everyone knows you want Rafa sacked, thats not what I found funny - it was the irony in your statement about not coming accross as negative or provocative which was the source of my mirth.

[Woobus]

why is it comedy gold. thats exactly how i see it and if you you look back to the beginning of the season thats how many posters saw it.

From memory most people voted that they would accept a challenge this year, even Rashid said he would be happy to still be challenging come April.

[rudedog]

He's living off the European Cup win in 2005. That's it. I wonder if we'd be saying the same if he hadn't won No. 5?

yeah, our league position is terrible isn't it.

[DannyMan2006]

why is it comedy gold. thats exactly how i see it and if you you look back to the beginning of the season thats how many posters saw it.

infact i even think rafa knows this hence why he's anglig for an extension whilst we're doing well. that way if we fail he's in a stronger position.

anyway i'd replied to niel as he doesn't have the blind love condition that others suffer from which is why i didn't want to come across as being negative or provocative. i just think this is the way it is. win the title or get sacked.

I think you'll find that 90% of posters said that if we were not involved in the title race he should be sacked. Being out the title race by November was the norm for Liverpool of late and everyone said it was about time this was sorted.

Having said that it was also argued that another Euopean Cup win would keep him in the job even if we had been out the race by now.

It's too easy to say sack him if we don't win the title. We need to assess it at the end of the season.

[Neil Young]

He's living off the European Cup win in 2005. That's it. I wonder if we'd be saying the same if he hadn't won No. 5?

Well maybe not but we did.

Of course the European Cup win is important in judging whether or not he's a good enough manager to win the league. The longer ago it is then, for that judgement, the less weight it carries. The fact we were runners-up two years later is also not entirely unimportant. Also it's clear that other factors have to be taken into consideration, especially his league record here but also his league record in Spain.

To say he's "living off" Istanbul is going far too far. Would you really entirely disregard it when assessing his record and abilities?

[Sarb]

I wouldn't disregard it but it wouldn't be a sole reason why he should keep his job.

If we look at it objectively, he hasn't challenged in the league since he's been here. We've done well in Europe but as a Premiership manager he's failed to mount a challenge until now. He's had a lot of money to spend and ain't done it for me.

This should be his last attempt to win it for me

[rudedog]

I can't believe we are top the league and have just finished top of our group in the Champions league yet here we are talking about whether we should sack Rafa if we don't win the league.

its embarassing considering our position at the moment.

[DannyMan2006]

He's living off the European Cup win in 2005. That's it. I wonder if we'd be saying the same if he hadn't won No. 5?

He is livingof his success in Europe overall, which isn't a bad thing. Prior to him taking over we had only ever got as far as the quarter-final (recent times) and sometimes failed to qualify for the competition.

Under Rafa we have won it, made the last 16, come runners up and last year made the final 4. This year we are in the last 16.

We have the best record in Europe as far as I'm concerned in the elite competition.

Take all that away and obviously he would have been sacked long ago, if we based his success purely on the premier league. But then that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

And yes he has spent a lot of money, but how much have we earned due to the success in Europe? You could say that the money he has spent has been the money he himself has earned from his own success in the compeition.

[PTP]

when would you draw the line? another season?

seriously, we're in the best position we've ever been under rafa but i will judge him at the end of the season. if we just miss out then of course there's an argument for keeping him but there is just as strong an argument that says you've had 5 years and hundreds of millions etc.

the champions league may add some weight but the fa cup will mean nothing. we have aspirations far greater than a domestic cup team.

well - i don't think it is as straight forward and as simple as you say, too just draw a line. - I personally would be happy for rafa to be succesful enough to stay at liverpool until he retires.

I think the criteria, if thats the word, were the line would be drawn and for him to be sacked, wouldn't be as straight forwad as - if you don't win the league this year, your gone!

i think for me, i wouldn't have such a straight and narrow view on it - I'd only start calling for rafa's head (or any manager really) if say, we stopped competing for titles, we let standards slip so were challeinging with villa and everton rather than arsenal/man u/chelsea, or if he lost the dressing room say, and players just didn't want to play for him, or we got into a situation were gerrard/carragher/alonso/torres/mascherano/reina all came out and said rafa's lost it it's time to move on

basically, I believe any managers time is up when you can see they can not take the team any further - right now under rafa, we are always improving, he is always tryign to take us up another notch - until the time comes when that 'forward' movement stops and as a result the culb can't move forawrd unless we get rid then i will be happy with him as manager -

now if thats this season, midway through next season, or never so be it.... i just disagree that you should be as blunt as win the league this year or you gone........

let's try and make some sense here - i'm not saying that rafa should never be sacked, and i'm not saying i'm happy with rafa even we never win a league - what i am saying is, that he should be in charge as a manager until the poitn comes when there is no longer any forward momentmum in the team/squad as a whole

does that make sense

[Neil Young]

I wouldn't disregard it but it wouldn't be a sole reason why he should keep his job.

If we look at it objectively, he hasn't challenged in the league since he's been here. We've done well in Europe but as a Premiership manager he's failed to mount a challenge until now. He's had a lot of money to spend and ain't done it for me.

This should be his last attempt to win it for me

Winning or nothing? Like rage says, there's surely an argument for retaining him if we come close. If we lost on goals scored like in 1989 (shudder), then you'd sack him even though it would be by far our best season since 1990?

Since no manager can guarantee we'll win it (especially given our financial constraints vs. the strong financial positions of Man U and Arsenal and the bottomless pits of Chelsea and Man City) then challenging is as good as we can demand. And I think we're challenging right now so I don't see the point risking it for no real gain.

[memzey]

I can't believe we are top the league and have just finished top of our group in the Champions league yet here we are talking about whether we should sack Rafa if we don't win the league.

its embarassing considering our position at the moment.

[PTP]

He's living off the European Cup win in 2005. That's it. I wonder if we'd be saying the same if he hadn't won No. 5?

thats a ridiculous comment imo - granted it certainly has helped but come on, the squad is much better now than when he took over, unfortunatley we don't have a multi billionaire owner to come in and buy instant success - i ain't saying rafa hasn't had money, cause he has, and he has made some great buys and some terrible buys like all managers.

But who knows what would have happened if we hadn't won number 5 - maybe, the yanks wouldn't have taken over, DIC did, gave him £300m too spend and he would have won the league last year

[PTP]

Winning or nothing? Like rage says, there's surely an argument for retaining him if we come close. If we lost on goals scored like in 1989 (shudder), then you'd sack him even though it would be by far our best season since 1990?

Since no manager can guarantee we'll win it (especially given our financial constraints vs. the strong financial positions of Man U and Arsenal and the bottomless pits of Chelsea and Man City) then challenging is as good as we can demand. And I think we're challenging right now so I don't see the point risking it for no real gain.

exactly the point i'm struggling to make - i am baffled that people want rafa gone - yes he makes mistakes, but he is liverpool through and through - I'm staggered to think people should sack him - why? firstly, who would you want to replace him, secondly, say we finished 3rd in the league just 3 points off the top, thats depserartlley close and unclucky and people are saying he should get sacked - so then what, reina, mascherano, alonso, torres turn round and say i am going too, a new manager comes in and gets rid of all the coaching staff, and we start the whole process of rebuilding again, menaing we will be another 3 or four years from challening, and then say if the new manager does a good job but doesn't iwn the league in the 5 years despite the fcat we improve and come even closer, what sack them!! - ****ing hell are people expecting that if we sacked rafa this season, and brought in say Jose Mourinho - that next season we will beat everyone 5-0 and win the league with 100pts

[Neil Young]

exactly the point i'm struggling to make - i am baffled that people want rafa gone - yes he makes mistakes, but he is liverpool through and through - I'm staggered to think people should sack him - why? firstly, who would you want to replace him, secondly, say we finished 3rd in the league just 3 points off the top, thats depserartlley close and unclucky and people are saying he should get sacked - so then what, reina, mascherano, alonso, torres turn round and say i am going too, a new manager comes in and gets rid of all the coaching staff, and we start the whole process of rebuilding again, menaing we will be another 3 or four years from challening, and then say if the new manager does a good job but doesn't iwn the league in the 5 years despite the fcat we improve and come even closer, what sack them!! - ****ing hell are people expecting that if we sacked rafa this season, and brought in say Jose Mourinho - that next season we will beat everyone 5-0 and win the league with 100pts

And, breathe.