PSV 1-3 Liverpool- Post Match

[Craig_H]

I'm not sure. I think it's just his way. He's always had this thing where something doesn't go his way he throws his arms up in the air and runs round like a drama queen. he did it at Spurs as well

Just don't think it improves confidence of players it's aimed at

There's two ways to potentially look at the Keane thing, with his frustrations and complaining.

Either you say it shows passion, he cares and he knows he's in a poor run, and it's hurting him - which i'd rather see, rather than a player who shrugs his shoulders, counts his money and doesnt care. That's the positive angle.

Or you can say he's a drama queen, it's unprofessional and it has a negative impact on confidence throughout the team. That's the negative viewpoint.

Needless to say, i'd have put my house on you choosing the latter.

You didnt disappoint.

[PTP]

Nobody's got 'so excited', people are pleased that we won convincingly away in europe, with a weak side and they're happy to see fringe players perform well and in some cases, scores goals which will help increase their confidence. Furthermore, trash or not, we were playing at a fairly high level of competition and it's pleasant to see that there are circumstances where fringe players can come in and offer a valuable and useful input. Certainly proves they do have their uses and this helps justify their presence in our squad.

I consider myself to be fairly 'feet on the ground' and i dont like to get carried away with things, but you have to see things for what they are.

You come across as though you'll break your back to find a negative slant and it's reaching the point where it does come across as though it's so emphatic, that it cant be genuine. Hence the WUM comment, because some of your input is so bizarre that people struggle to take it seriously.
Myself included.

- not as good as my rant tho

I think my main issue with the negativiity is some people do seem to go out of their way to be negative

it's the word BUT that does it - i might ban it/censor it haha

some people just have to say something like

"yeah, fair enough, lucas did ok...........but" and then go on a rant

ok fair enough everyone has different opinions and i understand that the whole idea of a forum is too discuss them, but () every single post doesn't have to be negative all the time - would it be so painful to just, once in a while, be happy and say "yeah the lad improved last night and did ok," and just leave it at that.......with outh the motha****ing BUT


- i don't know whats got into me today - i am just on one and am going to make some of these *******s smile!

[Craig_H]

I'm not worried. I don't mean I think our home form is brilliant or will necessarily become so but it doesn't worry me for four reasons:

1. If people are worried our home form will cost us the league then that's a massive improvement on where we have been since 1990. So why should I worry about it when I can simply enjoy the fact we're doing better than we have in a generation?
2. Our home record isn't terrible and we're top of the league despite not being brilliant.
3. I don't see why I should worry over something I can't control.
4. If we win the league, great; if we don't then life goes on. We've got nothing to lose.

People seem to think if we don't win the league it would be a disaster. I want to win it as much as anyone but let's keep things in proportion or be, um, realistic.

I'm not suicidal at our home form, it's a concern but i'm still subscribing to the "we're miles better than most sides who come to anfield so we'll improve it soon enough".

The points in your list however, come across (to me at least) as an example of the kind of mentality that has contributed to this club not contesting the title in nearly 20 years. It's the whole "3rd is pretty good" attitude which has evolved throughout the club over the past 15-20 years and has IMO meant that we've taken on the role of 'brave losers' rather than ruthless winners.

I'm not having a go at you so please dont take this as any kind of personal attack. I just think that whole train of thought, whereby we're saying it's ok not to win or challenge for the title, because we're doing a bit better than our recent failed campaigns, is characteristic of small clubs and those who subscribe to the "it's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part" theory.

Man Utd and Chelsea (in recent years) have a winning mentality, one which tells them that if you win it, you've succeeded and if you dont, you're a failure. One which resents the notion of seeing a 3rd or 4th place finish as 'successful' or even satisfactory.

The only way we'll win the title is by being strict and harsh on ourselves because as soon as you accept the position of also-ran, you cease to participate in the title race.

[Reece]

Okay who's stolen Craig's login.

[PTP]

Okay who's stolen Craig's login.

[Craig_H]

Of course I get anxious watching a match like everyone else but even then if I tell myself just to enjoy what's happening and let the result take care of itself (or simply let the manager and players take care of the result) then I can switch off the worry.

It's good that you can do that, it's probably healthier and if i could do the same, i would do. But it's just foreign to me, i cant imagine being able to do that.

[Craig_H]

why is it comedy gold. thats exactly how i see it and if you you look back to the beginning of the season thats how many posters saw it.

infact i even think rafa knows this hence why he's anglig for an extension whilst we're doing well. that way if we fail he's in a stronger position.

anyway i'd replied to niel as he doesn't have the blind love condition that others suffer from which is why i didn't want to come across as being negative or provocative. i just think this is the way it is. win the title or get sacked.

No i dont think it is. I think he has to CONTEST the title.

There are arguably 4 brilliant teams in this league and all four managers are talented, buy great players and know their football. Only one can win it though.

[Woobus]

The points in your list however, come across (to me at least) as an example of the kind of mentality that has contributed to this club not contesting the title in nearly 20 years. It's the whole "3rd is pretty good" attitude which has evolved throughout the club over the past 15-20 years and has IMO meant that we've taken on the role of 'brave losers' rather than ruthless winners.

It is something which does need to change. Take the Champions League before we won it we would all have been happy enough getting to the semis.
After we won it and managed another final everyones attitude changed and you could see the players had that extra bit of believe when it came to Champ League games.

[barnes10]

He's living off the European Cup win in 2005. That's it. I wonder if we'd be saying the same if he hadn't won No. 5?

i think he's living of his european pedigree full stop. if we'd only got to CL semis and maybe one final and lost it then i think he'd still have the backing he has. second to this is his record at valencia.

the above is true up until this season but so far, he looks to be doing enough to merit it on his league abilities. if we implode then we may as well resign to never winning the league under him. however, if we keep going and fight it out to be within say 5 pts at the end of the season then i'd say that this year is a landmark one as we have genuinely competed for the premiership against man u and chelski, probably the best club sides in the world at the mo.

[slimbimjim]

I'm not suicidal at our home form, it's a concern but i'm still subscribing to the "we're miles better than most sides who come to anfield so we'll improve it soon enough".

The points in your list however, come across (to me at least) as an example of the kind of mentality that has contributed to this club not contesting the title in nearly 20 years. It's the whole "3rd is pretty good" attitude which has evolved throughout the club over the past 15-20 years and has IMO meant that we've taken on the role of 'brave losers' rather than ruthless winners.

I'm not having a go at you so please dont take this as any kind of personal attack. I just think that whole train of thought, whereby we're saying it's ok not to win or challenge for the title, because we're doing a bit better than our recent failed campaigns, is characteristic of small clubs and those who subscribe to the "it's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part" theory.

Man Utd and Chelsea (in recent years) have a winning mentality, one which tells them that if you win it, you've succeeded and if you dont, you're a failure. One which resents the notion of seeing a 3rd or 4th place finish as 'successful' or even satisfactory.

The only way we'll win the title is by being strict and harsh on ourselves because as soon as you accept the position of also-ran, you cease to participate in the title race.

Mate, if it were the fans mentality that won the league then we would have won it a few more times since 1990

[dww]

There's two ways to potentially look at the Keane thing, with his frustrations and complaining.

Either you say it shows passion, he cares and he knows he's in a poor run, and it's hurting him - which i'd rather see, rather than a player who shrugs his shoulders, counts his money and doesnt care. That's the positive angle.

Or you can say he's a drama queen, it's unprofessional and it has a negative impact on confidence throughout the team. That's the negative viewpoint.

I have to say I have been thinking for a while that it must be hard as a player to judge how to act - both on the pitch and in interviews so many fans are waiting to judge everything you say and how you say it or your body language. It is clear that fans are bound to have favourites but the difference that makes to how people view the actions of so many players.

[cannotmakeit]

We could win the league and some will still be saying Rafa didn't win by enough points so sack him. They want him gone and every single post/topic will turn into some kind of sack rafa agenda and it will continue until he is gone. It sad but that's what is going on here and this forum is rapidly losing its appeal for me.

[billy_mac]

I saw one comedy moment in particular from Dossena. Second half they hit a cross field ball. Appeared as though he didn't know whether to head or kick and went towards it and missed completely...but then made up with a block later. I cracked up

Yeah, it came at him from a long way and he was looking at it going, head it? volley it? Entertaining but hardly inspiring stuff.

[Craig_H]

Mate, if it were the fans mentality that won the league then we would have won it a few more times since 1990

No mate, that's not what i meant. I was talking about the mentality of the club, not the fans. Neil's points echoed it though and i think it's shared between club and fans. This mentality plays an enormous part in our failure to win the league.

[rage]

We could win the league and some will still be saying Rafa didn't win by enough points so sack him. They want him gone and every single post/topic will turn into some kind of sack rafa agenda and it will continue until he is gone. It sad but that's what is going on here and this forum is rapidly losing its appeal for me.

don't be silly, i'd be saying sack him 'cos he didn't win the european cup as well

really this hasn't become a sack rafa thread, if you look at it the discussion has been balanced and no-ones calling each other.

the post match thread if anything shows that after finishing top of our group and sitting top of the league some of us are starting to believe that we can win it.

craig might call me a wum, mr dog may laugh at me but all of thats fair. i refuse to get over excited by beating a poor psv. what i was excited about and still am 24hrs later is darby and spearing. i've also finally seen lucas have his best game in red.

but all said and done i'd trade another season of european glory for the premiership. i hope we can beat hull convincingly. anything less and i'm worried about our inability to break down mid table ****e defences will cost us the title.