Lucas

[Baldemort]

Lucas is average at best. I'll never forget the game against Villa at the start of the season. He was completely and utterly overrun and looked as though he was going to burst into years. He jumps out of tackles, rarely makes killer passes, doesn't defend brilliantly, doesn't attack brilliantly and very rarely scores. He's average at best and has no place in a title winning side going by his current level of performance. He has to make a massive improvement if he's to earn a regular starting place.

[Fan65]

Lucas is average at best. I'll never forget the game against Villa at the start of the season. He was completely and utterly overrun and looked as though he was going to burst into years. He jumps out of tackles, rarely makes killer passes, doesn't defend brilliantly, doesn't attack brilliantly and very rarely scores. He's average at best and has no place in a title winning side going by his current level of performance. He has to make a massive improvement if he's to earn a regular starting place.

Rafa must be a fool playing him eh ?

If only he'd listen to this kind of analysis, maybe if he did we'd be top of the league.

[anfieldanfield]

Lucas is average at best. I'll never forget the game against Villa at the start of the season. He was completely and utterly overrun and looked as though he was going to burst into years. He jumps out of tackles, rarely makes killer passes, doesn't defend brilliantly, doesn't attack brilliantly and very rarely scores. He's average at best and has no place in a title winning side going by his current level of performance. He has to make a massive improvement if he's to earn a regular starting place.

Pretty much spot on.

[Baldemort]

Rafa must be a fool playing him eh ?

If only he'd listen to this kind of analysis, maybe if he did we'd be top of the league.

Lucas not starting every game has helped to keep us top of the league. Can the Lucas fans out there explain what he has that should earn him a starting place over world class talent such as Gerrard, Alonso and Mash?

It may be unfair to give up on the lad, but why is it that folks often say that Babel should sit on the bench until he earns a starting place, yet Lucas plays awfully and gets to start? Babel has had a dodgy season, but he has infinitely more talent than Lucas.

Lucas only gets to start games because Rafa loves to be cautious. Ask yourself if Lucas would get into Manus or Chelsea's squad. Would he bollocks. He needs to improve massively if he is to play in a title winning squad.

[wiw]

Lucas not starting every game has helped to keep us top of the league. Can the Lucas fans out there explain what he has that should earn him a starting place over world class talent such as Gerrard, Alonso and Mash?

It may be unfair to give up on the lad, but why is it that folks often say that Babel should sit on the bench until he earns a starting place, yet Lucas plays awfully and gets to start? Babel has had a dodgy season, but he has infinitely more talent than Lucas.

Lucas only gets to start games because Rafa loves to be cautious. Ask yourself if Lucas would get into Manus or Chelsea's squad. Would he bollocks. He needs to improve massively if he is to play in a title winning squad.

Of course it has, Xabi has been out of this world? The fact is we can't play the same 2/3 players week in week out in central midfield. It's the most important part of the pitch and if you want to stay at the same high level there then you need to make changes from time to time

I think peoples main problem with Babel is the perceived ****e attitude he has. Lucas to me has a good attitude. He shows for the ball and tries things.

I remember when Rafa joined someone told me he said to one of the younger players in the first team, something along the lines of - "I want you to do this, this and this...as long as you do these things I'm happy. You may make mistakes doing other things but it's ok". I think it's about control for Rafa...can he control where he wants the player to be? Yes.. Can he control how the player plays? Not really.. but he believes in them and that's the most important thing.

As for your last para, there are plenty of players in the other top 4's squads that wouldn't get into ours..so what?


...and I believe he's already playing in a title winning squad

[dww]

I like Lucas a lot. I don't see a big difference in performance this season between him and Mascherano. He was better than Alonso last season and he has done well in a lot of games this season. He tries, he is tactically aware and obviously improving in a number of areas. In all these ways he has done more to earn a start than Babel.

At the minute he doesn't bring the drive we need at times to midfield but against Stoke neither did Mascherano or Gerrard. As far as I remember he has not taken Gerrard's place in the team at any point this season so that argument is a complete red herring.

This would he get into Man United or Chelsea's squads is also a bit of a red herring but nonetheless I think a decent argument can be made for him being of equal quality to Ferguson or Mikel even if they all fulfil slightly different roles.

[anfieldanfield]

Hetries, he is tactically aware

Great.

Pity he can't score goals or tackle.

For a box-to-box midfielder, those would be the first two things I would look for.

[Scratch]

Great.

Pity he can't score goals or tackle.

For a box-to-box midfielder, those would be the first two things I would look for.

I think he knows where the goal is, but in the roles he is being employed in, he rarely gets that far forward, in the same way that neither Alonso or Mascher are not banging in the goals.

As for his tackling, he seems a lot more willing to get stuck in these days, as opposed to last season and early this season where he would not go for the 50/50 tackles.

[Baldemort]

Of course it has, Xabi has been out of this world? The fact is we can't play the same 2/3 players week in week out in central midfield. It's the most important part of the pitch and if you want to stay at the same high level there then you need to make changes from time to time

I think peoples main problem with Babel is the perceived ****e attitude he has. Lucas to me has a good attitude. He shows for the ball and tries things.

I remember when Rafa joined someone told me he said to one of the younger players in the first team, something along the lines of - "I want you to do this, this and this...as long as you do these things I'm happy. You may make mistakes doing other things but it's ok". I think it's about control for Rafa...can he control where he wants the player to be? Yes.. Can he control how the player plays? Not really.. but he believes in them and that's the most important thing.

As for your last para, there are plenty of players in the other top 4's squads that wouldn't get into ours..so what?


...and I believe he's already playing in a title winning squad

Xabi has been great. But if Lucas had started the majority of our games, we'd be third or fourth at best. His attitude may be great, but that doesn't make him a great footballer. He wouldn't get a game at Manu or Chelsea, and I would take any of their CMs over Lucas. As for him being as good as Mikel, nah. I see your point about having to have a 4th choice back up, and that's great as long as he accepts that. In a way it's good that he's not great, as he'll hopefully happily accept a bit part role from the bench or with just the odd start every now and then. The gap in class between Lucas and our other three CMs is a gaping chasm.

[Scratch]

Xabi has been great. But if Lucas had started the majority of our games, we'd be third or fourth at best.

Or sitting 8 points clear...pure speculation.

[Baldemort]

Or sitting 8 points clear...pure speculation.

Not really. If Ramos were our manager would we be top? No.

Sometimes a player is that much lower in quality that you know he'd make a difference in all the wrong ways. He plays in a critical part of the pitch.

Imagine having had Cavalieri in goal all season so far. I'd bet good money that we'd not be top.

[Scratch]

Well, so far this season Lucas has been on a par, if not more effective than Mascher...maybe we'd be better off if Lucas had played and Mascher had spent more time on the bench? ****s sake, your argument is purely subjective, based on your biased opinion of Lucas' abilities.

[Baldemort]

Well, so far this season Lucas has been on a par, if not more effective than Mascher...maybe we'd be better off if Lucas had played and Mascher had spent more time on the bench? ****s sake, your argument is purely subjective, based on your biased opinion of Lucas' abilities.

It's not biased at all. I've watched him play and I think Lucas is poor. Mash has not been good this season, but he's still better than Lucas. At least with Mash on the pitch, if he has a top game he can be world class. You won't get that out of Lucas.

[Scratch]

It's not biased at all. I've watched him play and I think Lucas is poor. Mash has not been good this season, but he's still better than Lucas. At least with Mash on the pitch, if he has a top game he can be world class. You won't get that out of Lucas.

How do you know? I've seen plenty in Lucas that suggests that he will go on to be a great player, and it would appear that so have Rafa and the rest of the coaching staff.

And so far this season, Mash has been gash (which is a shame, cos last season he was immense), whereas at least Lucas has shown, albeit it far too imfrequently, glimpses of what he could do given a confidence boost.

[Baldemort]

Mate, i've been watching Lucas since his early days in the reserves. He didn't even stand out in the reserves. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. He's an average to good footballer at very best. At the moment, he's poor. And if he wants to get to the same level as the captain of Argentina, he's got a very long way to go.