Lucas

[Fan65]

It's the comment after your question that leaves me tearing what little hair I have left out of my scalp. It's almost as though folks are willing to blindly accept Rafa's judgment as gospel. He's a great manager and i'm glad we have him, but he makes mistakes. How often did he play Nunez and Josemi? Don't even get me started on Dossena. Maybe he feels that if he persists with Lucas, he'll come good. But at the moment he is poor. And just because Rafa chooses to play him, it doesn't mean otherwise.

I still see Lucas in a different light to you, to me he looks like an excellent prospect. Recently (for me) he has been showing why Rafa has faith in him, that through ball to Gerrard..magnificent. I appreciate vs Stoke wasn't one of his good games but then again I thought Gerrard was appalling in that game and he's amongst the best midfielders in the world.

Dossena is an enigma, he can certainly cross a ball but his defensive duties look suspect, maybe the premiership is to much for him to handle maybe under Lee's guidance he'll grow into it, either way I'm certain Rafa will do the right thing, he's not afraid to show a ruthless side, Josemi, Nunez, Morientes.

Yes Rafa can make mistakes of course and I dont blindly accept his judgement, e.g. I cannot see why he persevered with Kewell for the length of time he did, for me he Kewell was an expensive waste of time, he never showed any thing like his potential.

The great thing about this forum is the sharing of opinions and sometimes we cannot see what other people are on about but it's just great to read other fans ideas and aspirations and sometimes we can learn from others.

As for Lucas, we'll just have to see what happens as it's out of our control
but I know he'll become a star, as I'm sure you know different.

[Craig_H]

I still see Lucas in a different light to you, to me he looks like an excellent prospect. Recently (for me) he has been showing why Rafa has faith in him, that through ball to Gerrard..magnificent. I appreciate vs Stoke wasn't one of his good games but then again I thought Gerrard was appalling in that game and he's amongst the best midfielders in the world.

Dossena is an enigma, he can certainly cross a ball but his defensive duties look suspect, maybe the premiership is to much for him to handle maybe under Lee's guidance he'll grow into it, either way I'm certain Rafa will do the right thing, he's not afraid to show a ruthless side, Josemi, Nunez, Morientes.

Yes Rafa can make mistakes of course and I dont blindly accept his judgement, e.g. I cannot see why he persevered with Kewell for the length of time he did, for me he Kewell was an expensive waste of time, he never showed any thing like his potential.

The great thing about this forum is the sharing of opinions and sometimes we cannot see what other people are on about but it's just great to read other fans ideas and aspirations and sometimes we can learn from others.

As for Lucas, we'll just have to see what happens as it's out of our control
but I know he'll become a star, as I'm sure you know different.

Not sure how anyone can 'know' that.

[einar]

Stoke vs. Liverpool

The stats for Lucas Leiva

Balls won 5 62,5%
Balls lost 3 37,5%

Headers won 3 75%
Headers lost 1 25%

Tackl. won 2 66%
Tackl. lost 1 33%

Successful Back passes 14 100%
Unsuccessful back passes 0 0%

Successful side passes 25 96%
Unsuccessful side passes 1 4%

Successful forward passes 26 77%
Unsuccessful forward passes 8 23%

Total nr. of passes 74 88% successful. 19% back, 35% to the side and 46% forward.

Shots. 0


Clearances 2

Key passes* 2
Key tackles 1

*A pass that completely changes the attacking position of the team.


In the second half he played a bit more forward. He worked his but of the whole game, closed down and harassed really well. IMO these stats show that Lucas was one of our better players against Stoke and stats like these are really impressive for a 22 year old playing for the top team in the EPL that was, to top it all of, playing very poorly.
There is not doubt in my mind that Lucas has every chance to becoming a top class player for us.

[wiw]

Where did you get those stats from out of interest?

[einar]

Watched the game with a pen and paper.

I have no life.

[wiw]

Er..thanks

[Joe King]

Er..thanks

Thats you told

[wiw]

Thats you told

Fs I agreed with him and everything Outrageous

[Joe King]

Fs I agreed with him and everything Outrageous

Yes. Fs to you too.

[MrMichael]

Watched the game with a pen and paper.

I have no life.

[anfieldanfield]

I still have nightmares over Marseille last season.

*Mummy!*



I can't see Leto ever playing for us again.

I was there that night and I have never in my life seen a footballer look so out of his depth.

[livvy145]

Benitez took him off after 51 minutes, says it all really.


Anyways, Lucas - meh.

[Baldemort]

Stoke vs. Liverpool

The stats for Lucas Leiva

Balls won 5 62,5%
Balls lost 3 37,5%

Headers won 3 75%
Headers lost 1 25%

Tackl. won 2 66%
Tackl. lost 1 33%

Successful Back passes 14 100%
Unsuccessful back passes 0 0%

Successful side passes 25 96%
Unsuccessful side passes 1 4%

Successful forward passes 26 77%
Unsuccessful forward passes 8 23%

Total nr. of passes 74 88% successful. 19% back, 35% to the side and 46% forward.

Shots. 0


Clearances 2

Key passes* 2
Key tackles 1

*A pass that completely changes the attacking position of the team.


In the second half he played a bit more forward. He worked his but of the whole game, closed down and harassed really well. IMO these stats show that Lucas was one of our better players against Stoke and stats like these are really impressive for a 22 year old playing for the top team in the EPL that was, to top it all of, playing very poorly.
There is not doubt in my mind that Lucas has every chance to becoming a top class player for us.

The whole team, including Lucas, was pants in that game. So it just goes to show how stats can be very misleading.

[einar]

The whole team, including Lucas, was pants in that game. So it just goes to show how stats can be very misleading.

So all my hard work is shot down in one sentence?

Stats are not misleading. They show exactly what the show. Nothing more nothing less.
And an 88% pass rate from a 22 year old midfielder at the top of club football is very impressive.
So lets compare. I watched the Newcastle game again.

Newcastle vs. Liverpool

Stats for Lucas Leiva

Balls won 6 100%
Balls lost 0 0%

Headers won 1 50%
Headers lost 1 50%

Tackles won 1 100%
Tackles lost 0 0%

Successful Back passes 19 100%
Unsuccessful back passes 0 0%

Successful side passes 13 100%
Unsuccessful side passes 0 0%

Successful forward passes 17 81%
Unsuccessful forward passes 4 19%

Total nr. of passes 53 93% success rate
36% back, 24% side and 40% forward.

Goal attempts 4
On target 3

Fouls suffered 0
Fouls committed 1

Clearances 2

Key passes* 1
Key tackles 0

*A pass that completely changes the attacking position of the team.

Lucas played for the last 30 min on the right wing. Of those 4 failed passes only one was a real error on his behalf.

So he went from a 93% success rate to a 88% success rate. But in the eyes of the nincompoops like you he went from being ok to being the worst player in the team and is never gonna make it. (Please don´t take this personal) The fact is that he had a great game by any standard (If this had been a 22 year old Gerrard everyone would be beside them selves) against Newcastle, and a good game against Stoke, but in a team that was playing poorly. There was little or no movement in front of him and so on. And please don´t tell me again that he was crap against Stoke unless you have watched the game again, with your head and not your heart.

IMO it would have taken someone truly special to drive Liverpool on to victory in that game at the age of 22. The stats show the he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Made hardly any mistakes (considering that he was playing in midfield and saw allot of the ball ) was very good defensively, made good forward runs, made clever runs into the box, wins the ball far more ofter then he looses it with out ever going to ground. He plays with the coolness of a player 10 years older and he is only gonna get better.

IMO we should be pissed of at the older players in that team who did not pull the team forward, players like Gerrard, Mascherano, Riera, Kuyt or Yossi. Going after the youngest player in the team that day for not playing better is IMO and as the stats indicate, just stupid.

[Baldemort]

Ah, i see. So lets not bother watching the game when it comes to rating a player, we can just read the stats instead. Thats plain idiotic. Quantitative analysis has its place, but if you cant understand why stats can be misleading then there is no hope for you. Stevie could have a game where he has the same set of stats as lucas regarding his passes etc but it doesnt make him the same player. A lot of lucas' passes are simple easy johnny sideways passes that most players could pull off. Alonsos stats could never put across just how wonderful a passer of the ball he is. Or how difficult some of the passes are that he pulls off. Stats do have their place in football, but to make a case for a player solely on his stats is stupid. As i said, the whole squad were poor against stoke, including lucas, yet your stats show he was great. That in itself shows how stats can be misleading. You're making a fool of yourself with your own posts.