Lucas

[Chrono]

As i alluded to with the previous post, Hamann made a career out of winning possession and then playing the simple ball. It might not be flashy or anything, but it means we keep possession.

Sometimes, if the movement is correct, a string of 'simple' balls can carve open a defence. Dww is right, the 'simple' ball is vastly underrated.

Hamman was in the holding role where as Lucas, in theory, is not. When counter attacking see how many balls go from defence to holding midfielder, normally none.

[Shaggy]

I find it strange that this debate is ongoing - or rather that his critics are still rounding on him - on the back of another impressive performance, following his excellent display at Old Trafford. I thought he was excellent yesterday - his continuity play is very good and helps us monopolise possession so well.

[anfieldanfield]

If that was a 'good' game from him yesterday, I really don't want to see the bad ones. Whenever he plays, he's always the weak link in midfield and has minimal impact. You barely notice he's there, so people say "He was in Masch's role, so he did the simple defensive work", but what exactly did he do defensively? How many tackles has he put in? How many balls has he won? At least Masch has some energy going forward, and sometimes he even manages to contribute offensively, he's set up quite a few goals going forward, what does Lucas do? I'll tell you what he does:

1. Receive ball.
2. Attempt to control the ball for about 3 seconds.
3. Gets pressured by an opposition player.
4. ****s himself.
5. Tries to find the nearest man for a simple backwards or sideways pass.
6. Lets out a sigh of relief, and makes a run forward to hide behind the opposition so that no one will give him the ball again.

So 6 works with Alonso in the team, because he's excellent at making the plays by himself, but it fails horribly when he's partnered with Masch because we're left with on one to master our game. This is why Lucas-Masch is so horrible, and why Alonso-Lucas kinda works. He's a liability either way, we just feel he's good when it doesn't hinder our team massively. A player who's a liability by default and is needed to be carried by someone next to him does not merit a starting position.

So when does Lucas have a good performance? When we don't dominate possession and he just concentrates on running around and chasing the ball. Everyone can look good by working hard.

Not good enough.

[BG1973]

If that was a 'good' game from him yesterday, I really don't want to see the bad ones. Whenever he plays, he's always the weak link in midfield and has minimal impact. You barely notice he's there, so people say "He was in Masch's role, so he did the simple defensive work", but what exactly did he do defensively? How many tackles has he put in? How many balls has he won? At least Masch has some energy going forward, and sometimes he even manages to contribute offensively, he's set up quite a few goals going forward, what does Lucas do? I'll tell you what he does:

1. Receive ball.
2. Attempt to control the ball for about 3 seconds.
3. Gets pressured by an opposition player.
4. ****s himself.
5. Tries to find the nearest man for a simple backwards or sideways pass.
6. Lets out a sigh of relief, and makes a run forward to hide behind the opposition so that no one will give him the ball again.

So 6 works with Alonso in the team, because he's excellent at making the plays by himself, but it fails horribly when he's partnered with Masch because we're left with on one to master our game. This is why Lucas-Masch is so horrible, and why Alonso-Lucas kinda works. He's a liability either way, we just feel he's good when it doesn't hinder our team massively. A player who's a liability by default and is needed to be carried by someone next to him does not merit a starting position.

So when does Lucas have a good performance? When we don't dominate possession and he just concentrates on running around and chasing the ball. Everyone can look good by working hard.

Not good enough.

Way too harsh. Especially your 6 point breakdown of his game. In answer to your last paragraph how about against United? Aurelio's free kick came about about from a clever ball from Lucas. Hardly 3 seconds to control and then a sideways pass. He plays those balls quite a lot but you probably wouldn't notice as you're concentrating too much on witnessing his next mistake.

People are free to crticise anyone but can we keep it balanced? He's not a world beater (yet, will he ever be who knows?) but he is nowhere near as bad as some would suggest.

[Chrono]

I find it strange that this debate is ongoing - or rather that his critics are still rounding on him - on the back of another impressive performance, following his excellent display at Old Trafford. I thought he was excellent yesterday - his continuity play is very good and helps us monopolise possession so well.

See I just don't agree with you on that. Fair enough he was good against Man U but in my eyes he was not good yesterday and had we not got an admittedly deserving goal near the end then I think he would have been in major part to blame for breaking down our own play/rhythm.

[Mattshark]

See I just don't agree with you on that. Fair enough he was good against Man U but in my eyes he was not good yesterday and had we not got an admittedly deserving goal near the end then I think he would have been in major part to blame for breaking down our own play/rhythm.

I don't get that, his passing was good and he filled Mascherano's role very well, that is what he was there to do.

I think the hypercritical posts are completely unjustifiable in my eyes.

[Craig_H]

See, i'm actually nowhere near the 'Lucas basher' people make me out to be, my comments just reflect what's happening.

There's far worse than me

[Mattshark]

See, i'm actually nowhere near the 'Lucas basher' people make me out to be, my comments just reflect what's happening.

There's far worse than me

Never said you where :P

[Charlie_B]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why Lucas comes in for so much criticism. Yes, he has had a few bad matches this season, and a few mediocre ones. But who doesn't?? No player plays great in every match. I understand he's had more than most, but he's still not a bad player at all.

He can be frustrating as anything, but the same can be said of most of the players in the team at some point in their Liverpool career.
Reina went through a period of clangers which led to many saying he wasn't good enough for Liverpool.
Riera had a poor period after Christmas, but looks like he's back to his pre-December form.
Alonso was shocking by his standards for the majority of last season.
Both Agger and Skrtel have had games where they have looked out of place, as a young centre half in this league is likely to do.

Lucas is nowhere near the finished article, and we won't see the best of him for two years or so, I'd say. He's got the potential, he's showed it at times this season, and last, and it's just a case of consistency. He's not anyone's first choice ahead of Alonso and Mascherano - but can I ask, who is the WORLD people would put in ahead of either of those two?? He's got a big task on his hands, but Lucas is very much a part of this Liverpool team.

[Craig_H]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why Lucas comes in for so much criticism. Yes, he has had a few bad matches this season, and a few mediocre ones. But who doesn't?? No player plays great in every match. I understand he's had more than most, but he's still not a bad player at all.

He can be frustrating as anything, but the same can be said of most of the players in the team at some point in their Liverpool career.
Reina went through a period of clangers which led to many saying he wasn't good enough for Liverpool.
Riera had a poor period after Christmas, but looks like he's back to his pre-December form.
Alonso was shocking by his standards for the majority of last season.
Both Agger and Skrtel have had games where they have looked out of place, as a young centre half in this league is likely to do.

Lucas is nowhere near the finished article, and we won't see the best of him for two years or so, I'd say. He's got the potential, he's showed it at times this season, and last, and it's just a case of consistency. He's not anyone's first choice ahead of Alonso and Mascherano - but can I ask, who is the WORLD people would put in ahead of either of those two?? He's got a big task on his hands, but Lucas is very much a part of this Liverpool team.

The point is that there need to be more good performances than bad ones.

If he maintains what he's doing now for the majority of his games long term, then there's not a problem for me.

[Ben_Itez]

If that was a 'good' game from him yesterday, I really don't want to see the bad ones. Whenever he plays, he's always the weak link in midfield and has minimal impact. You barely notice he's there, so people say "He was in Masch's role, so he did the simple defensive work", but what exactly did he do defensively? How many tackles has he put in? How many balls has he won? At least Masch has some energy going forward, and sometimes he even manages to contribute offensively, he's set up quite a few goals going forward, what does Lucas do? I'll tell you what he does:

1. Receive ball.
2. Attempt to control the ball for about 3 seconds.
3. Gets pressured by an opposition player.
4. ****s himself.
5. Tries to find the nearest man for a simple backwards or sideways pass.
6. Lets out a sigh of relief, and makes a run forward to hide behind the opposition so that no one will give him the ball again.

So 6 works with Alonso in the team, because he's excellent at making the plays by himself, but it fails horribly when he's partnered with Masch because we're left with on one to master our game. This is why Lucas-Masch is so horrible, and why Alonso-Lucas kinda works. He's a liability either way, we just feel he's good when it doesn't hinder our team massively. A player who's a liability by default and is needed to be carried by someone next to him does not merit a starting position.

So when does Lucas have a good performance? When we don't dominate possession and he just concentrates on running around and chasing the ball. Everyone can look good by working hard.

Not good enough.

Ive never seen Lucas take 3 seconds to control the ball and would go as far as saying he has one of the best first touches in the squad. Often he will play a first time (simple) pass rather than controlling the ball switching the focus of the play allowing the player he passes to more time on the ball than he, himself, would have had. This helps us monopolise possession and switch the play effectively.

I honestly think if he did a few step overs and dribbles but lost the ball 50% of the time some posters on here would be happier.

Thought he had an excellent game yesterday and how people can say he didnt is simply staggering IMO

[Charlie_B]

The point is that there need to be more good performances than bad ones.

If he maintains what he's doing now for the majority of his games long term, then there's not a problem for me.

The "bad" performances are in the minority. The guy has made mistakes, and he has had less than great games. As has EVERY MEMBER OF THE SQUAD THIS SEASON.

He isn't going to stand out, that's not his role. He's more like Hamann than Alonso or Mascherano, and with confidence will come better games. Give the guy a break for Christ's sake.

[Craig_H]

The "bad" performances are in the minority. The guy has made mistakes, and he has had less than great games. As has EVERY MEMBER OF THE SQUAD THIS SEASON.

He isn't going to stand out, that's not his role. He's more like Hamann than Alonso or Mascherano, and with confidence will come better games. Give the guy a break for Christ's sake.

No they're not. And breaking up the play, giving the ball simply and not losing it DOES stand out to me - he's been doing that, hence the recent credit.

[Charlie_B]

I'm not going to keep saying "Oh, but yes they are".

You're telling me that he has more bad games than ok and good games put together? Disagree completely, but there you go.

There won't be a single player sold this summer because they aren't good enough, simple. Lucas is good enough, and will prove it over time.

[Craig_H]

I'm not going to keep saying "Oh, but yes they are".

You're telling me that he has more bad games than ok and good games put together? Disagree completely, but there you go.

There won't be a single player sold this summer because they aren't good enough, simple. Lucas is good enough, and will prove it over time.

Have i said he isnt? I'm just saying he's reached a good level and needs to maintain it.

He's had more ineffective games for us than not.