SOS action at Debrecen game

[DannyMan2006]

It's ok to say they're trying to do something, but what are they trying to do exactly? Yanks out is only half a plan.

If they stop focussing on the problem until they at least come up with a viable solution first then maybe they'd get somewhere.

It's just all piss and vinegar and vaguely sad.

I think they're a decent group with noble aims. But I'm a pragmatist, and I can't be doing with the "Yanks Out" shouting unless you've got some (realistic) idea of who you want in instead. There don't seem to be too many billionaires with a few hundred million burning holes in their pockets at the moment, and the shareliverpool approach seems to be a non-starter. Non-violent protesting will only get you anywhere if you are clear about your aims. "Yanks Out" with no alternative won't do. They aren't going to leave unless they make the sort of profit they are hoping for. Recent announcements suggest that they are paying off debt, and are boosting the commercial revenue of the club, rather than going bust. So what's the end-game here? Or is the shouting alone supposed to make me feel better?

I think both these points are why action at present is pretty much a non starter. I support SOS in their actions (the legal ones) but do wonder where they are going with it all. Maybe they feel there is someone they can bring to the table.

[Pacman]

It is my understanding that the debt is getting paid off, in fact to keep onside with RBS the debt had to be reduced by £60m this summer. Of course some of this is just speculation. But if we could afford that then chances are the debt will be paid off.

I might be wrong here but I think RBS only give a **** about their debt being paid off that doesn't mean they care if Pinky and Perky get loans or saddle debt on LFC to pay this debt off.

I thought they were loaning money by other means to reduce the debt the club have with RBS therefore loading more debt on to the club.

[Scratch]

I might be wrong here but I think RBS only give a **** about their debt being paid off that doesn't mean they care if Pinky and Perky get loans or saddle debt on LFC to pay this debt off.

I thought they were loaning money by other means to reduce the debt the club have with RBS therefore loading more debt on to the club.

As far as i am aware, the debt has decreased from the £350 million it was at, to £290 (altho i read £250 today, on this forum i think??) and that it is RBS who are driving this reduction...RBS have refinanced the whole debt, which means we probably only owe money to them, and no longer owe that american bank beginning with W anything, cos they have not been mentioned at any point. So if RBS only care about their debt getting paid off, and there's is the only debt we have...then it's better now?

[Pacman]

As far as i am aware, the debt has decreased from the £350 million it was at, to £290 (altho i read £250 today, on this forum i think??) and that it is RBS who are driving this reduction...RBS have refinanced the whole debt, which means we probably only owe money to them, and no longer owe that american bank beginning with W anything, cos they have not been mentioned at any point. So if RBS only care about their debt getting paid off, and there's is the only debt we have...then it's better now?

They haven't refinanced the whole debt mate.

We still have debt with Wachovia and also a fairly large loan under the guise Kop Caymen where we are paying **** loads of interest.

[DannyMan2006]

I've seen no mention of Wachovia either so it may well all be with RBS. As far as I'm aware the loan was reduced, as Scratch said, by £60m. I think we have paid of the difference, as well as G+H having to offer up more guarantees, meaning if the club did go up in smokes RBS would be able to claim other assets of the Yanks to pay of the debts.

The fact so much was paid off is what makes me think they will be successfull in their aims to purchase the club with it's own profits.

[DannyMan2006]

They haven't refinanced the whole debt mate.

We still have debt with Wachovia and also a fairly large loan under the guise Kop Caymen where we are paying **** loads of interest.

The RBS and Wachovia ones were both up in July were they not? And as far as I'm aware all the debt is on Kop Holdings, which is why G+H kept saying there was no debt on the club. That company is Kop Caymen.

[Pacman]

I've seen no mention of Wachovia either so it may well all be with RBS. As far as I'm aware the loan was reduced, as Scratch said, by £60m. I think we have paid of the difference, as well as G+H having to offer up more guarantees, meaning if the club did go up in smokes RBS would be able to claim other assets of the Yanks to pay of the debts.

The fact so much was paid off is what makes me think they will be successfull in their aims to purchase the club with it's own profits.

In every google search I have just done Wachovia is mentioned.

[Scratch]

In every google search I have just done Wachovia is mentioned.

Pre July...is there definiteive prrof that H/G renegotiated with the W bank to refinance their loan, cos that was also up in July....which makes me think that RBS took on the full burden of the debt, and Purslow (their appointment by all accounts) is there to oversee things and to keep the club on an even keel.

[DannyMan2006]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aJTEdw_kvaEo

July 27 (Bloomberg) -- Liverpool soccer club’s American owners have refinanced 290 million pounds ($476.6 million) of debt with Royal Bank of Scotland Plc and Wachovia Corp., a person with knowledge of the transaction said.

Owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr. had borrowed 290 million pounds from their available 350 million-pound credit facility, which expired last week. They got the new agreement after pledging to pay back 60 million pounds of the debt outstanding, the person said.

After the transaction, the owners will have a 230 million- pound loan with the banks, the person said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the deal.

“It all depends on the terms,” said Sean Hamil, a lecturer at the University of London’s Birkbeck Sport Business Centre. “They’ve got themselves some breathing space. But the bottom line is a loan is something you have to pay back.”

Jonathon Brill, a spokesman for the owners, said Hicks and Gillett wouldn’t comment, while RBS spokesman Piers Townsend and Mary Eshet, a spokeswoman for Charlotte, North Carolina-based Wachovia, part of Wells Fargo & Co., declined to comment.

The person familiar with the transaction didn’t provide details of the length of the new loan or how long the owners have to pay down the debt. In its most recent set of accounts published on June 4, the northwest England-based team’s parent company Kop Football (Holdings) Ltd. had a full-year loss of 42.6 million pounds because of 36.5 million pounds of interest payments on loans.

2007 Purchase

Hicks, 63, and Gillett, 70, purchased Liverpool in 2007 for 174 million pounds, assuming 44.8 million pounds of liabilities. At the press conference after the purchase, Gillett said the acquisition had “put no debt on the club.” The debt with RBS and Wachovia, used to finance the takeover and then the running of the club, was partially loaded onto the 18-time English champion team, upsetting the team’s fans.

The owners have tried to raise cash and attract another equity partner as the deadline to refinance the loan neared.

“The current economic conditions have had a significant impact upon world credit markets and accordingly raising finance in this environment is challenging,” Kop Holdings said in its accounts.

Hicks is exploring selling some of his stake in the Texas Rangers, which he bought from a group headed by former U.S. President George W. Bush. In April, his Dallas-based Hicks Sports Group defaulted on $515 million in loans after missing an interest payment.

Gillett agreed on June 20 to sell his 80 percent stake in hockey’s Montreal Canadiens to Quebec’s Molson family. The price is about C$633 million ($580 million), according to the La Presse newspaper.

The team, which finished second to Manchester United in the last English Premier League campaign, won for the first time this pre-season, getting past Singapore 5-0 yesterday as part of its Asian tour.

[DannyMan2006]

So reading that...........

The debt is with RBS and Wachovia as Pacman said.

We initially agreed a loan of £350m, but they only used £290m

To refinance the deal they had to pay back £60m

The new loan deal is for £230m.

[Scratch]

So reading that...........

The debt is with RBS and Wachovia as Pacman said.

We initially agreed a loan of £350m, but they only used £290m

To refinance the deal they had to pay back £60m

The new loan deal is for £230m.

Fair enough...if this insider has his info right...

Wasn't the original loan garnered with £60 million set aside for the stadium, and obviously not used as such...hence the £350 being £290...and now that RBS have got it down to £230 by getting G/H to pay back another £60 million?

Still not convinced that only RBS are hassling G/H tho...could they be working on behalf of both banks?

[kingfunk]

Action? What Action?

[dom9]

Did anything happen last night?

Was anybody prevented from entering an airport / taxi / hotel / football ground / fish and chip shop?

[Guest]

Where was the Milkman?

[dom9]

Where was the Milkman?

Having an early night to ensure he got up to do his rounds on time?