Minutes from Christian Purslow and SOS Meeting

[Lecter]

When they bought it. They certainly didn't get RBS to stump up 100% of the cash for the acquisition. Nearly £60m came in from their Cayman holding company.

They bought the club for £174 million plus £44 million debt

Two years ago we had over £350 million of debt owed to the banks

They have paid down £130 million this summer, Gilletts share of which was loaned from a hedge fund if I remember correctly, who knows where Hicks' money came from

Yes they have an awful lot to lose if the club goes into administration and imo this might be the reason Purslow has been so candid in his interview with SOS (a warning shot across their bows to wake up get real and maybe cut their losses before they lose everything)

Hicks is extremely stubborn thats a given seeing his actions with the Rangers and its clear that the owners valuation has been prohibitive in selling the club or finding investors

IF Purslow's comments (about the £100 million needed within 6 months) were reported as accurate (and the comments themselves are true) the owners are in an extremely difficult position and I struggle to see how they can come out of this with any profit, the best they are going to do is limit their losses

[kris90210]

James P - you're a credit to this site. You should post more often!

[Shanks]

James P - you're a credit to this site. You should post more often!

Hold on to your seat fella!

Pricewaterhouse and Deloitte will be along soon, maybe Ernst and Young will put in an appearance and tell us what's happening..

.

[kris90210]

Hold on to your seat fella!

Pricewaterhouse and Deloitte will be along soon, maybe Ernst and Young will put in an appearance and tell us what's happening..

.

Haven't got a clue what you're on about. But whether you agree with what the bloke is saying or not, he's clearly an articulate individual who can cut through a lot of the typical **** that bogs down most 'discussions'

[James P]

I said the ruler himself is not skint. long live our amazing owners!!!!

Dubai is a constitutional monarchy. Unless I'm very much mistaken, that means that the state and the ruler are effectively the same thing. Which means that he's still skint.

[Scratch]

How am i refusing to accept that might be wrong?

I wasnt having a go at you, and i appreciate the 'praise' as you put it but i was merely answering your post and the points in it.

Well, i'm home now, and not bored ****less at work, so i will not bother carrying on the argument, which was really just to give me something to do whilst clock watching.

And it is praise...this place can be a little slow at times, but having your argumentative little soul around the place sure does liven it up

[Lecter]

Dubai is a constitutional monarchy. Unless I'm very much mistaken, that means that the state and the ruler are effectively the same thing. Which means that he's still skint.

I'm not sure that is completely accurate but the jist of what you are trying to say is correct

The bulk of the Dubai economy is knackered and the Sheikh will not be buying LFC anytime soon (for political reasons more than anything)

[Shanks]

They bought us at a time when we could barely afford to buy Dirk Kuyt, and they've given us Torres, Mascherano, Babel, Aquilani, Keane and Johnson, all of whom cost way more than Kuyt did.

THEY'VE GIVEN US!

Rafa sold Bellamy and Cisse at a profit to fund the Torres deal.

Sold Riise like for like and Keane we got back, so all in all, not much really...

that's without bringing Alonso and Arbeloa, into the equation.

[CJ]

as a part qualified accountant (and wanting to get out of it) i agree with James P

good read and well reasoned posts.

for the record i want the yanks out to. we have to be careful about who the new owners are and i find SOS embaressing but then any group that sself appoints itself as the voice of everyone usually is. there aims are good but its not the best way to go about it.

and the good thing the yanks have bought can be seen in better commercial deals.

[James P]

They bought the club for £174 million plus £44 million debt

Two years ago we had over £350 million of debt owed to the banks

For god's sake, not this again.

The club has never had £350m of debt. They had a total facility of £350.5m, which from recollection (my copy of the accounts is in a cupboard at work) was split £245m to the holding co, and £105.5m to the Club for working capital. In the 2008 accounts the total debt was about £269m, with a further £58m or so owed to the Cayman holding company, which is nothing whatsoever to do with RBS, and can't be recalled anyway if it places the club in financial difficulty.

From what is disclosed in the accounts, the facility has never been fully drawn down.

IF Purslow's comments (about the £100 million needed within 6 months) were reported as accurate (and the comments themselves are true) the owners are in an extremely difficult position and I struggle to see how they can come out of this with any profit, the best they are going to do is limit their losses

The £100m is apparently required because it will reduce the current debt burden sufficiently to allow the banks to provide financing for the stadium (according to Purslow's own version of the meeting). As it stands the club is capable of servicing the current debt burden, but the stadium is out of the question. Whether RBS will foreclose in the absence of the £100m is something that none of us are sure about, and I really have my doubts that Purslow would have casually tossed this into the conversation. Again, I wonder if SOS have misinterpreted the comment about the inability to build the stadium and invest in the team if new investment is not forthcoming, and turned it into a rather more sensationalist '6 months to save the club' story.

[James P]

Haven't got a clue what you're on about. But whether you agree with what the bloke is saying or not, he's clearly an articulate individual who can cut through a lot of the typical **** that bogs down most 'discussions'

Thanks. I'm just trying to balance out the speculation and hearsay with what few hard facts we actually have.

[James P]

THEY'VE GIVEN US!

Rafa sold Bellamy and Cisse at a profit to fund the Torres deal.

Sold Riise like for like and Keane we got back, so all in all, not much really...

that's without bringing Alonso and Arbeloa, into the equation.

Poor choice of phrase, granted, but the fact is that we've bought our six most expensive players of all time with them in charge.

If you reckon that Cisse was sold at a profit, you need your head examined! Bellamy was sold because he never lived up to his promise, and just happened to assault one of his team mates.

We lost the equivalent of £8m on the Keane deal, and got a couple of mill for Arbeloa. And it wasn't G&H who pissed off Alonso, it was Rafa.

If Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd weren't spending like it was going out of fashion (no longer in the case of the latter, obviously) then I reckon that a lot of people would be viewing our spending in an rather different light. A new contract has also been given to Rafa for the not inconsiderable sum of around £20m over 5 years.

It's not like these guys have employed a slash and burn policy, selling off every decent player and stripping the cash out. The fact that their tenure has been a failure is clear on the pitch, but it's more to do with the fact that they simply don't have the financial muscle that certain other clubs do, and that the economic crisis has removed any prospect of them maximising revenues through the construction of a new stadium. The fact that they have a habit of making extravagant promises doesn't help, of course, and I am entirely in agreement with those that think their time is up. I just want to see the transition handled in a discreet and professional manner.

[Shanks]

Poor choice of phrase, granted, but the fact is that we've bought our six most expensive players of all time with them in charge.

Tell me the six most expensive players we have BOUGHT, without Rafa balancing the books..

Bellamy was sold at a profit and Cisse was sold to fund the deal.

Whether the owners or Rafa pissed off Alonso is irrelevant.
They didn't give us Aquilani.

[Lecter]

For god's sake, not this again.

The club has never had £350m of debt. They had a total facility of £350.5m, which from recollection (my copy of the accounts is in a cupboard at work) was split £245m to the holding co, and £105.5m to the Club for working capital. In the 2008 accounts the total debt was about £269m, with a further £58m or so owed to the Cayman holding company, which is nothing whatsoever to do with RBS, and can't be recalled anyway if it places the club in financial difficulty.

From what is disclosed in the accounts, the facility has never been fully drawn down.




The £100m is apparently required because it will reduce the current debt burden sufficiently to allow the banks to provide financing for the stadium (according to Purslow's own version of the meeting). As it stands the club is capable of servicing the current debt burden, but the stadium is out of the question. Whether RBS will foreclose in the absence of the £100m is something that none of us are sure about, and I really have my doubts that Purslow would have casually tossed this into the conversation. Again, I wonder if SOS have misinterpreted the comment about the inability to build the stadium and invest in the team if new investment is not forthcoming, and turned it into a rather more sensationalist '6 months to save the club' story.

Your information is kind of contradicted by Purslows isnt it?

Purslow claims the current debt is £237 million and the owners have reduced the debt last year by £130 million??

If your figures are correct then Purslow is lying

Its hard to tell what SOS have interpreted if it was one person in the room then I'd have severe doubts as to the voracity of their minutes, the fact that there was a number of SOS members present (at least one of which is a qualified chartered accountant like yourself) makes me at least give them the benefit of doubt

As to whether the club can easily afford the payments is hard to tell if I remember rightly the club made a profit but the holding company made a massive loss and the accountants at the time (KPMG?) did mention in the accounts that they had concerns about the companies ability to trade in the future

As to whether RBS would foreclose as you rightly say its hard to tell whether they will or not but I think people have to remember Purslows background. He describes himself as a specialist in moving forward financially troubled companies that to me says a lot about our current situation.

[wavydavy]

absolutely, as is Carragher, Robbie was the last Liverpool player from Liverpool

huyton, kirkby, halewood, birkenhead, all the same, close to Liverpool but not Liverpool

Gerrard's not a scouser? Huyton is not in Lpool? It's not that black and white. A proper scouser would know that. It's not about boundaries. What a laughable post! Halewood & Kirkby not in Liverpool :