Benítez says he needs fresh investment to compete for title

[DannyMan2006]

If the Yanks hadn't pretended we had money in the pot for a striker maybe Rafa would have got one instead of having to rely on N'Gog. Had this been the case we would be top 4 now.

[destinydude]

Sorry dont buy that

Everything is bound to be static in comparison to how Real Madrid operate so I dont tend to buy what Arbeloa is saying either

Forget Real Madrid. You cannot cheat what is tangible to the naked eye. You can have a poll to get the majority opinion.

Our football is static. How many 1-2's do we play in every game compared to the Mancs or Gooners? How many times do you see a practiced move coming off other than Gerrard passing it on to Torres and Torres scoring?

[DKdan]

You couldnt be more wrong. When Benitez went there the had a near perfect team, a team that was good enough to make it to two consecutive European Finals.

All he did was sort their defense and bring some rigidity at the back and that caused them to have more success.

He never had the experience of building a squad from scratch.

Interesting. Before you said he coached them to be static. Now you are saying if he has the right players they are successful? This means our current squad is not good enough, yes?

But he built the squad that was a wisker away from the title last year from scratch... so if he has no experience doing that, I dont think he as done too bad.
Imagine if he had been allowed to build on the success from last season...

[Lecter]

You couldnt be more wrong. When Benitez went there the had a near perfect team, a team that was good enough to make it to two consecutive European Finals.

All he did was sort their defense and bring some rigidity at the back and that caused them to have more success.

He never had the experience of building a squad from scratch.

Still doesnt explain why Rafa the ultra defensive / boring / static coach managed to be in charge of a side who scored more goals than any other team in Spain (when the previous Valencia manager didnt manage it despite creating / building this side)

I guess it was pure luck (just like when he managed the same feat last year with us)

[destinydude]

Interesting. Before you said he coached them to be static. Now you are saying if he has the right players they are successful? This means our current squad is not good enough, yes?

But he built the squad that was a wisker away from the title last year from scratch... so if he has no experience doing that, I dont think he as done too bad.
Imagine if he had been allowed to build on the success from last season...

Honestly speaking 90 million over 5 yrs is good enough to get you players to win the League.

Everyone knows we wont be getting any money any time sooner. So how about zipping it up and getting on with it rather than moaning at every single opportunity?

He built this squad from scratch barring Carragher and Gerrard and how good are we? You're seeing this season.

[MrMichael]

Can we stop with the ****ing boring Rafa bashing? It's ****ing tedious reading each and every Liverpool related thread without it descending into one. We know all about Craig_H's argument about Rafa, it's been done ad nauseam here and I for one have had enough of having to read it.

Draw a ****ing line and talk about something else. Don't want to be reading (and arguing) the same ****e for another 12 months.

Its not just Craig, and to be fair, some other people don't help matters by sticking to the most rigid possible alternative view just to be bloody-minded.

Truthfully, we've had a shocking season, just count the defeats on one hand and try to remember genuinely good performances on the other. There's been an atmosphere of almost resigned defeat around our club all season, and that's pretty hard for many fans to stomach. Personally I don't think its all that unreasonable for there to be some major rumblings about Rafa, and discussing the subject doesn't have to constitute "bashing". Christ, this is a football forum, what do we expect people to talk about? When teams are doing well, the manager gets the praise, when they aren't he gets the criticism, its the nature of the job.

HOWEVER, that discussion has no place in a thread about refinancing, so I'm going to find somewhere to move all those posts to right now......

[destinydude]

Still doesnt explain why Rafa the ultra defensive / boring / static coach managed to be in charge of a side who scored more goals than any other team in Spain (when the previous Valencia manager didnt manage it despite creating / building this side)

I guess it was pure luck (just like when he managed the same feat last year with us)

1. 2001-02. Goals for 51 Goals Away 27 More than 4 clubs scored more than him but Valencia conceded the least. Ten lesser than the second least conceded team.

2003-2004 Goals for 71 Goals Away 27. Still not the highest scoring club and the second best Goals Away team conceded 34.

2. If we scored the most no of goals than anyone. 7 more in the league I think then why the duck did we not win anything? cos we failed to score in FIVE games.

5 outta 38 games and that's 13% where you are just leaving it open to your opponents to get more points.

[Lecter]

Forget Real Madrid. You cannot cheat what is tangible to the naked eye. You can have a poll to get the majority opinion.

Our football is static. How many 1-2's do we play in every game compared to the Mancs or Gooners? How many times do you see a practiced move coming off other than Gerrard passing it on to Torres and Torres scoring?

Dont compare us to the Mancs or the Gunners

It could be argued that the only Liverpool side to ever play a similar type of game to those sides was Dalglish's 87-89 side

Paisleys sides did not even play as many one twos as ther Mancs or the Gunners do now

As for training ground moves, really I think you need to stop and think, they dont choreograph individual attack moves on the training ground

This is football not ****ing ballet

The only training ground moves that will be practiced and put on a pitch are from set pieces, just like the one Agger got the other week against Benfica

[destinydude]

Dont compare us to the Mancs or the Gunners

It could be argued that the only Liverpool side to ever play a similar type of game to those sides was Dalglish's 87-89 side

Paisleys sides did not even play as many one twos as ther Mancs or the Gunners do now

As for training ground moves, really I think you need to stop and think, they dont choreograph individual attack moves on the training ground

This is football not ****ing ballet

The only training ground moves that will be practiced and put on a pitch are from set pieces, just like the one Agger got the other week against Benfica

Which Agger confirmed wasnt a practiced one but an intuitive one. I compared the contemporary teams and contemporary styles. Can we move on to some other thread pls

[elrichio86]

Honestly speaking 90 million over 5 yrs is good enough to get you players to win the League.

[Lecter]

1. 2001-02. Goals for 51 Goals Away 27 More than 4 clubs scored more than him but Valencia conceded the least. Ten lesser than the second least conceded team.

2003-2004 Goals for 71 Goals Away 27. Still not the highest scoring club and the second best Goals Away team conceded 34.

2. If we scored the most no of goals than anyone. 7 more in the league I think then why the duck did we not win anything? cos we failed to score in FIVE games.

5 outta 38 games and that's 13% where you are just leaving it open to your opponents to get more points.

I still dont get what you are trying to prove

You criticise the manager for being defensive, he coaches a team that scored the most goals last season yet you bring up us not scoring in 5 games

WTF!!!

So what we only lost 2 games last season (this season we've lost 10), Chelsea have lost 5, we conceeded 27 goals last year (33 so far this)

It could be argued that this season our biggest failings have been, not being as tight at the back as previous years

You see how easy it is to manipulate statistics to mean whatever the **** you want??

[Lecter]

Honestly speaking 90 million over 5 yrs is good enough to get you players to win the League.

Tell that to Man City

[Guest]

We've conceded only 6 goals more this season, that's a damning statistic. We haven't been doing that badly defending at the end of the day, we've just been caught up by other teams strengthening and having better quality squads.

[Scratch]

Honestly speaking 90 million over 5 yrs is good enough to get you players to win the League.

Ignoring the established players that were here when Rafa arrived (Gerrard & Carra) you are suggesting that an average of £10 million a player is enough to get you a squad to win the league, and that's assuming that those 11 players play every game, uninjured obviously, which is unrealistic. So really, he'd need to buy another 5/6 players with that £90mill...that's 14/15 players required, so you honestly believe that if we spent, on average, £6-6.5mill per player we would be a title winning side?

[Lecter]

Honestly speaking 90 million over 5 yrs is good enough to get you players to win the League.

Rafa has not spent that much money NETT

His NETT spend is something like £13.3 million per annum

Which even if you take it over 6 years is circa £80 million NETT