Benítez says he needs fresh investment to compete for title

[Craig_H]

Where do you get this stuff...Rafa plays to lose eh ? Crazy, even if he sets his sides up differently...it with a view to win the game.

I didnt say he sets up to lose, did i?

But when we're level in must win games, he sticks with just one up front and takes off the world's best goalscorer.

When he has a must win home game, he picks a side with ONE genuinely consistent goal threat, leaving two others on the bench for an hour.

When the goal isnt coming, he CONTINUES to stick with just one up front, rather than proactively pushing bodies forward and battering the opposition's defence into submission.

He's too cautious, too scared to lose and the same mentality remains after nearly 6 years. He wont change it, and it wont win the title.

[Vermilion]

Exactly people on this site are completely blinkered at times

Spurs for instance played brilliant attacking football back end of the 70's and early 80's yet NEVER challanged for the title, yet Liverpool under Paisley who were disciplined, methodic and played a VERY similar system / ethos to Rafa's teams dominated

I'd also say that even Forest who won the title and two European Cups went out with a defensive mentality yet still achieved massive success

[Redspin]

That's kinda the point though, i'm convinced that if we played with an attacking mindset, we WOULDNT be in this position.

You can point to arsenal to back up your argument, but i dont recall them ever failing to qualify for the CL under Wenger, so the comparison doesnt hold up.

Finishing fourth - which Arsenal have done 3 times in the last 4 seasons under Wenger - does not qualify a team for the CL. It qualifies them for a qualifying round

Their "attacking mindset" didn't get them into an automatic CL place in those seasons and they were behind Liverpool in each of those 3 seasons.

So it appears to be a one-season phenomenon (this season) where their "attacking mindset" has been more successful than Rafa's approach. But, hey, why let a few facts get in the way of unsubstantiated paranoia?

[SRR]

He also refuses to change the way his team plays no matter what the situation, hence they got stuffed by Barca.

It also goes the other way, we've beat Real Madrid, Juventus, Utd etc because Rafa refuses to change the way we play.

[Vermilion]

I didnt say he sets up to lose, did i?

But when we're level in must win games, he sticks with just one up front and takes off the world's best goalscorer.

When he has a must win home game, he picks a side with ONE genuinely consistent goal threat, leaving two others on the bench for an hour.

When the goal isnt coming, he CONTINUES to stick with just one up front, rather than proactively pushing bodies forward and battering the opposition's defence into submission.

He's too cautious, too scared to lose and the same mentality remains after nearly 6 years. He wont change it, and it wont win the title.

Bollocks...i mean Pardon me ! only if he's not fully fit...you sound like a journalist ffs...pedalling myths.

Ah **** this, i'm in a bad mood now.

[SRR]

Finishing fourth - which Arsenal have done 3 times in the last 4 seasons under Wenger - does not qualify a team for the CL. It qualifies them for a qualifying round

Their "attacking mindset" didn't get them into an automatic CL place in those seasons and they were behind Liverpool in each of those 3 seasons.

So it appears to be a one-season phenomenon (this season) where their "attacking mindset" has been more successful than Rafa's approach. But, hey, why let a few facts get in the way of unsubstantiated paranoia?

[Craig_H]

He also refuses to change the way his team plays no matter what the situation, hence they got stuffed by Barca.

Again though reece, this has zero to do with the ability to consistently offer a title challenge. Wenger has done this, rafa doesnt. It's indisputable.

So without a real bone of contention with their league campaigns (which is essentially what i'm talking about), people's criticisms of Arsenal are invariably linked to the CL. I'm talking about the domestic league.

[Lecter]

Wenger's proven that he is capable of winning & challenging for the PL title - Rafa isnt. THAT is the point.

Arsenal havent won anything for years, but they havent had to make do with just one title challenge in 6 years and their fans KNOW for a fact that their manager has what it takes and knows what's required to challenge for the title consistently and win it. We do not have that, and IMO never will.

You still havent answered my question

How long would you give Wenger?

Its all well and good saying he did this 6 years ago but he hasnt done it for the last 5 or 6

You are proposing to can a manager who has won more trophies than Wenger in the last 5-6 years and probably been closer to the title than Wenger in that time also

I like Wenger his teams are a joy to watch hes second to none at bringing kids through but hes achieved nothing recently I know Arsenal fans who have been very disgruntled with him (as Reece says) for not being willing to change his ideals and ethos' against teams

[Kenneth]

Sorry but have to disagree with you there, how many times since Rafa took charge have Arsenal challenged for the title? More to the point what have they won in that time? Proof enough attacking football doesn't always bring success. It should also be pointed out that the only reason they qualified last season was because those in the hunt for 4th bottled it.

It's not simply a case of attacking football = more success than negative football. The games that ****ed up our season, and arguably stopped us winning the league last year, were games that we could have won if we had had a more attacking mentality. All sides lose or draw against crap teams, but we should be more flexible. For us, having the option to go at teams with more than one striker, one defensive midfield player etc etc, would make a big difference to our points total.

[Craig_H]

Dont be daft but its an example that just by playing attacking football doesnt mean a general level of improvement in results

Equally Wenger has great attacking footballing sides but wins **** all

Wenger's won numerous PL league titles and challenges for it more often than not. Rafa hasnt, doesnt and never will.

Let's just agree to disagree. And that goes for everyone else too, if i keep going on, i'll get slated for repeating myself, even though those discussing with me are doing the very same thing with their own arguments

[Lecter]

I'd rather try something that MIGHT work and hasnt yet proven to be a failure, than continue with the same failed method.

I agree that we havent invested enough but the problem is that rafa doesnt utilise what he DOES have well enough.

We dont need £80m worth of quality added to our squad, to be able to beat the dross that's taken points off us this season.

Teams in the bottom half manage to win at Pompey, Wolves, Wigan, Fulham etc, yet we cant. That failure isnt down to a lack of funds, it's down to the woefully inept utilisation of our current squad and a cowardly footballing mentality of trying to pinch a win against ****e & vastly inferior sides to us.

Behave yourself

I've never read such ****ing rubbish in my entire life

Honestly you dont half talk some ****e

[Craig_H]

Finishing fourth - which Arsenal have done 3 times in the last 4 seasons under Wenger - does not qualify a team for the CL. It qualifies them for a qualifying round

Their "attacking mindset" didn't get them into an automatic CL place in those seasons and they were behind Liverpool in each of those 3 seasons.

So it appears to be a one-season phenomenon (this season) where their "attacking mindset" has been more successful than Rafa's approach. But, hey, why let a few facts get in the way of unsubstantiated paranoia?

So we'll just ignore the seasons where Wenger's Arsenal won titles, doubles and consistently challenged for the PL.

[SRR]

Again though reece, this has zero to do with the ability to consistently offer a title challenge. Wenger has done this, rafa doesnt. It's indisputable.

So without a real bone of contention with their league campaigns (which is essentially what i'm talking about), people's criticisms of Arsenal are invariably linked to the CL. I'm talking about the domestic league.

The point is though they haven't consistently challenged have they, this season aside when was the last time they challenged?

[Vermilion]

Wenger's won numerous PL league titles and challenges for it more often than not. Rafa hasnt, doesnt and never will.

Let's just agree to disagree. And that goes for everyone else too, if i keep going on, i'll get slated for repeating myself, even though those discussing with me are doing the very same thing with their own arguments

While your at it..pm me weds lotto numbers.

[Lecter]

Wenger's won numerous PL league titles and challenges for it more often than not. Rafa hasnt, doesnt and never will.

Let's just agree to disagree. And that goes for everyone else too, if i keep going on, i'll get slated for repeating myself, even though those discussing with me are doing the very same thing with their own arguments

You dont half have an agenda (against Rafa) and frankly its so slanted a view you've got your head stuck up your arse