Benítez says he needs fresh investment to compete for title

[red g]

Fans like you make me sick and ashamed to be Liverpool fan. FFS we've had one bad season under Rafa and the world is about to end. Yes like all Liverpool fans I'm not happy with how this season has gone but not all of this is down to Rafa, how many key players have been out injured? How many key players (and you know who I mean) have looked disinterested? You think it's bad now, remember back to when Souness was in charge now that was bad and it wasn't just one season.

In my opinion our problems stem from the big change he made at the beginning of the season when he tried to make us more attacking from the back (which most fans were asking for and applauding at the time) and it didn't quite work out and we shipped goals for fun. Taking this into account, the form of Carragher at the start of the season, the form and attitude of Gerrard when he plays, Mascherano's form at the start of the season the ongoing Torres saga with his injury. Therein lies the problem. If you have issues with the core spine of the team then that will impact on the performance and the confidence of those around them.

I do not believe this is how he saw that the season was going to pan out and there is probably plenty that he would do different, but to shift all of the blame onto him is not right. Don't get me wrong, Rafa is to blame for some of the problems but not all the blame for our performances should be dropped on him. When he is able to put out his first choice lineup, we play good attacking football, unfortunately this season he has not been able to do that due to injuries and trying to stop us shipping goals for fun.

Maybe I'm looking at this differently to you, but out on the pitch there are 11 players who are given a job to and are more than capable of doing the job, but more often than not they have looked disinterented and out of form, the two main culprits being Gerrard and Carragher, but then I guess it's wrong to blame two of the local boys isn't it?

Instead of blaming one person, step back and look at the bigger picture. Getting rid of Rafa is not a guarantee to instant success and I for one am not interested in another 5 year plan under a new manager, I've had enough of them. I'd rather see where Rafa is going to take us now that he has control of the academy etc. New owners is what we need not a new manager.

Sorry for going off topic, **** morning at work and that comment pissed me off. Hicks and Gillett out.

yes we do, BUT to often we play for winning 1-0 on the break, to often we dont go for the jugular and to often we respect the opposition to much. These are Rafa's failings that make me want a new manager in charge next year

[Vermilion]

Rafa has got a few things wrong in his time (what manager has not), but it would be criminally myopic to to dismiss him as a bad manager on the basis of one season. This is the first season since he arrived where we have not improved from the last term and I'd be willing to cut him some slack on that front, especially given the shambles we seem to be behind the scenes and the fact that he has made a net transfer profit over the past 18 months or so.

I don't think he is perfect and I acknowledge the fact he has made some mistakes, but I just don't see anyone else as a realistic candidate who would be any better given the contraints Rafa has to work under. Far from it in fact, chopping Rafa and replacing him with someone like MON etc, would be another disastrous step along the path to barcode-esque messiah seeking which would sicken any right minded fan.

Exactly how i see it.

[Exiled_red]

Rafa has got a few things wrong in his time (what manager has not), but it would be criminally myopic to to dismiss him as a bad manager on the basis of one season. This is the first season since he arrived where we have not improved from the last term and I'd be willing to cut him some slack on that front, especially given the shambles we seem to be behind the scenes and the fact that he has made a net transfer profit over the past 18 months or so.

I don't think he is perfect and I acknowledge the fact he has made some mistakes, but I just don't see anyone else as a realistic candidate who would be any better given the contraints Rafa has to work under. Far from it in fact, chopping Rafa and replacing him with someone like MON etc, would be another disastrous step along the path to barcode-esque messiah seeking which would sicken any right minded fan.

[Vermilion]

This is what's happening...some fans can't see past the nose on their face anymore....a bad season has clouded their judgement and it's actually now about Rafa the person...who they dislike and blame everything on..

[Kenneth]

This is what's happening...some fans can't see past the nose on their face anymore....a bad season has clouded their judgement and it's actually now about Rafa the person...who they dislike and blame everything on..

That's crap though. Very few fans dislike Rafa personally. The comment about him being a fat **** is rare which is why the reponse has been like it has. Almost everyone I talk to about Rafa says they like the man and wish him to be sucessful, but lots realise he just won't be. A begrudging belief that he should go. There is almost no blind hate that I can detect.

[SRR]

yes we do, BUT to often we play for winning 1-0 on the break, to often we dont go for the jugular and to often we respect the opposition to much. These are Rafa's failings that make me want a new manager in charge next year

I don't think this would have been the case this season if we hadn't had so many problems at the start of the season. What makes you think a new manager will do any different? A new manager doesn't automatically guarantee all out attacking football.

Let me ask you this, if we got a new manager that played really good attacking football but we found ourselves in the same position as we have this season, what would your reaction be? Arsenal are the prime example of attacking football doesn't guarantee success.

[Chrono]

I don't think this would have been the case this season if we hadn't had so many problems at the start of the season. What makes you think a new manager will do any different? A new manager doesn't automatically guarantee all out attacking football.

Let me ask you this, if we got a new manager that played really good attacking football but we found ourselves in the same position as we have this season, what would your reaction be? Arsenal are the prime example of attacking football doesn't guarantee success.

Arsenal are still in the title challenge, went considerably further than ourselves in the CL and are guaranteed a place in the CL.

As Operation posted I like Rafa but it's very clear to me that he can't do it. He has a team massively underachieving and his tactical play is negative and has made transfer blunders we couldn't afford. I understand the situation he is working under but player-by-player we should not be where we are in the league.

[Craig_H]

how many times have we done it in 20 seasons?

That has no relevance. A Liverpool manager's remit is to challenge for the title. Just because others have failed, it doesnt mean our standards should go into the gutter.

Are we supposed to accept and embrace failure because it's what we've become accustomed to?

[dom9]

Fans like you make me sick and ashamed to be Liverpool fan. FFS we've had one bad season under Rafa and the world is about to end. Yes like all Liverpool fans I'm not happy with how this season has gone but not all of this is down to Rafa, how many key players have been out injured? How many key players (and you know who I mean) have looked disinterested? You think it's bad now, remember back to when Souness was in charge now that was bad and it wasn't just one season.

In my opinion our problems stem from the big change he made at the beginning of the season when he tried to make us more attacking from the back (which most fans were asking for and applauding at the time) and it didn't quite work out and we shipped goals for fun. Taking this into account, the form of Carragher at the start of the season, the form and attitude of Gerrard when he plays, Mascherano's form at the start of the season the ongoing Torres saga with his injury. Therein lies the problem. If you have issues with the core spine of the team then that will impact on the performance and the confidence of those around them.

I do not believe this is how he saw that the season was going to pan out and there is probably plenty that he would do different, but to shift all of the blame onto him is not right. Don't get me wrong, Rafa is to blame for some of the problems but not all the blame for our performances should be dropped on him. When he is able to put out his first choice lineup, we play good attacking football, unfortunately this season he has not been able to do that due to injuries and trying to stop us shipping goals for fun.

Maybe I'm looking at this differently to you, but out on the pitch there are 11 players who are given a job to and are more than capable of doing the job, but more often than not they have looked disinterented and out of form, the two main culprits being Gerrard and Carragher, but then I guess it's wrong to blame two of the local boys isn't it?

Instead of blaming one person, step back and look at the bigger picture. Getting rid of Rafa is not a guarantee to instant success and I for one am not interested in another 5 year plan under a new manager, I've had enough of them. I'd rather see where Rafa is going to take us now that he has control of the academy etc. New owners is what we need not a new manager.

Sorry for going off topic, **** morning at work and that comment pissed me off. Hicks and Gillett out.

You should read the match threads.

[red g]

I don't think this would have been the case this season if we hadn't had so many problems at the start of the season. What makes you think a new manager will do any different? A new manager doesn't automatically guarantee all out attacking football.

Let me ask you this, if we got a new manager that played really good attacking football but we found ourselves in the same position as we have this season, what would your reaction be? Arsenal are the prime example of attacking football doesn't guarantee success.

at least we gave it a good ****ing go !!!!

We have the players and i just dont believe Rafa is getting the best out of them and sadly i believe he is just over complicating things to much.

yr right about arsenal.......but then i would have preferred to have watched them week in week out than us over last couple of seasons, and we have both won the same!

[Vermilion]

That's crap though. Very few fans dislike Rafa personally. The comment about him being a fat **** is rare which is why the reponse has been like it has. Almost everyone I talk to about Rafa says they like the man and wish him to be sucessful, but lots realise he just won't be. A begrudging belief that he should go. There is almost no blind hate that I can detect.

Er....i did say some...so when you say 'very few fans dislike him' after saying what i said was 'crap', well that's a tad contradictory.

[Craig_H]

Let me ask you this, if we got a new manager that played really good attacking football but we found ourselves in the same position as we have this season, what would your reaction be?

That's kinda the point though, i'm convinced that if we played with an attacking mindset, we WOULDNT be in this position.

You can point to arsenal to back up your argument, but i dont recall them ever failing to qualify for the CL under Wenger, so the comparison doesnt hold up.

[Vermilion]

That's kinda the point though, i'm convinced that if we played with an attacking mindset, we WOULDNT be in this position.

You can point to arsenal to back up your argument, but i dont recall them ever failing to qualify for the CL under Wenger, so the comparison doesnt hold up.

True..or winning the Champions league...or even getting to two finals...in how many years.

[Lecter]

Not that i agree with the name calling, but it's not just one bad season.

A remit of any Liverpool manager is to challenge for the title and rafa's managed it once in six seasons. The good league campaign is the exception to the rule.

Seriously though when Rafa took over did you expect to challenge for the title that first season??

I know what you are saying in terms of his tenure but sometimes people need to think seriously

To me managers have to have a period of "grace"

FFS even Paisley got that

[Redspin]

Arsenal are still in the title challenge, went considerably further than ourselves in the CL and are guaranteed a place in the CL.

As Operation posted I like Rafa but it's very clear to me that he can't do it. He has a team massively underachieving and his tactical play is negative and has made transfer blunders we couldn't afford. I understand the situation he is working under but player-by-player we should not be where we are in the league.

Yes but it's quite possible, not to say likely, that Arsenal will finish potless and we'll have another European trophy, so the original poster's views on Arsenal playing pretty-pretty football and having little success is highly valid