Benítez says he needs fresh investment to compete for title

[CincyRed]

To me it seems the more control Rafa has gotten the worse the results have been. We lost the title by two goals last year and as been mentioned rafa's failure to be dynamic during matches was imo that difference. This past summer saw him given the most control over the club ever and look where we are. Maybe its a case of people having to get used to a new system and there is no doubting how great an impact having a manager at the helm for a long duration can have on continued success. and as been talked about to death, rafa has done far better than lying whiskey nose did in his first six seasons. yet, i can help but agree with the poster that said we need a new approach, bc we certainly have the foundation of wonderful players.

[Guest]

He ain't going anywhere.

[The Birdman]

To me it seems the more control Rafa has gotten the worse the results have been. We lost the title by two goals last year and as been mentioned rafa's failure to be dynamic during matches was imo that difference. This past summer saw him given the most control over the club ever and look where we are. Maybe its a case of people having to get used to a new system and there is no doubting how great an impact having a manager at the helm for a long duration can have on continued success. and as been talked about to death, rafa has done far better than lying whiskey nose did in his first six seasons. yet, i can help but agree with the poster that said we need a new approach, bc we certainly have the foundation of wonderful players.

The manager needs complete control over every aspect of the football side of the club.
It's madness to think we had a manager in charge for 5 years and he was working with reserve and youth set ups that did their own thing.

Whether you like Rafa or not to be be successful whoever we have in charge has to have complete control.
The problem is that to sack Rafa now a year into complete control would cause even more chaos behind the sceens in terms of a whole new set of backroom staff, the guy from Barcelona came here because Rafa brought him in.

We as a club are a ****ing shambles, last year we were a swan this year a ****ing dying fly

[Exiled_red]

To me it seems the more control Rafa has gotten the worse the results have been. We lost the title by two goals last year and as been mentioned rafa's failure to be dynamic during matches was imo that difference. This past summer saw him given the most control over the club ever and look where we are. Maybe its a case of people having to get used to a new system and there is no doubting how great an impact having a manager at the helm for a long duration can have on continued success. and as been talked about to death, rafa has done far better than lying whiskey nose did in his first six seasons. yet, i can help but agree with the poster that said we need a new approach, bc we certainly have the foundation of wonderful players.

That's a very simplistic view and isn't the only thing that has changed. Our poor season is due to a number of factors not just a single one. IMO we played above our level last year and below it this, our true level is probably about somewhere in between.

The problem with football is that if you don't strengthen your team every year you move backwards, we haven't had the funds to do that, add to that loss of key players, new signings not settling in quickly, injuries, loss of form, lack of confidence and poor decision making, these all have more bareing on results than Rafa having a greater level of control.

[dww]

That's a very simplistic view and isn't the only thing that has changed. Our poor season is due to a number of factors not just a single one. IMO we played above our level last year and below it this, our true level is probably about somewhere in between.

I don't think we played above our level last year - I think that we reached a peak of what that squad was capable of and it was a peak to which an in form Alonso was key. The blend of personalities in that squad was good and hence we got the most out of a lot of players. The players complemented one another tactically and we had a well established game plan.

This year we have sought to change many things - I think early in the season it was clear we wanted to move to a game based more on pressing higher up the pitch and a more narrow attacking midfield complemented by width from fullbacks. Very quickly key components of that plan showed problems:
Lucas struggled to get the right balance with Mascherano - either he played too deep and the whole team moved nowhere or he was too high up and teams (Spurs and Villa in particular IIRC) ran through the centre at will. Aquilani's injury meant that we had fewer options in that area.
Johnson was quickly shown to not be able to hold a man up consistently. If you want to pay with attacking fullbacks pushed up for width then the ability to get back quickly and do this is key. On the other flank the sole option of Insua has shown cracks as he is still learning. Trying to progress as an individual in a team shorn of confidence which is also trying to evolve it's pattern of play is hard. Aurelio's injuries were a bit of a bugger too.
Riera and Benayoun have been a/ poor and b/ injury prone.

I think there is an argument that Rafa tried to do to many things at too many levels this season. He was changing the way we played at first team level and arranging for a revolution in youth development too. It is possible that some things were given less attention than they needed due to this. I don't think it should be viewed as an ongoing problem though - we have new people in charge of the youth development and reserve levels and Rafa seems happy with them.

I think the problem is that when many problems occur and many changes are made people tend to assume that all the changes were the wrong ones. We had a huge number of coaching and conditioning personnel changes last year and we had a lot of injuries it is possible we made mistakes, it is equally possible that the transition was painful but that it will be worth it in the long run.

Obvious example of people who have taken blame are Pellegrino and the fitness/strength coaches who came from Newcastle. People don't really know what they do but put the problems in defense and injuries at their door. I'm not even sure that the Newcastle coaches worked with either clubs first team.

The problem with football is that if you don't strengthen your team every year you move backwards, we haven't had the funds to do that, add to that loss of key players, new signings not settling in quickly, injuries, loss of form, lack of confidence and poor decision making, these all have more bareing on results than Rafa having a greater level of control.

The question though really is whether Rafa should, with more control have not done better in at least some of those areas. Certainly some of them have always been the preserve of a manager and he needs to take responsibility for them (I'm not meaning to imply that he doesn't - one of his great strengths is his willingness to accept this).

I agree that he didn't really have the funds to make the transformation he wanted but he did have funds and I think a viable question is - would he have been better off going for quantity rather than gambling on someone like Aquilani who if it paid off would have provided top level quality? This season the PL has been a slog and I think it would have been a better option but no one foresaw the way the PL would go this year last summer and most wanted one or two top class players rather than a bulking out of the squad.

I also think moves like getting in the Australian doctor seem to show that Rafa is looking at the correct areas to move forward. Given our financial problems we need to get all the resources we have out on the field as often as possible. Even another 5 games of Gerrard and Torres at full fitness might have made a huge difference this season.

[BillobShaisley]

Our results against the other top 4 teams last year can't be relied on happening every year. Our formation and tactics last year provided more goals and the best goal difference so the idea that we need an entirely new approach is just one of frustration and emotion rather than any real insight.

We're short of a leader on the pitch and someone to pull the strings and we have a couple too many big headed whingers in the squad that need to stop sulking or **** off.

[Roboklopp]

I don't think we played above our level last year - I think that we reached a peak of what that squad was capable of and it was a peak to which an in form Alonso was key. The blend of personalities in that squad was good and hence we got the most out of a lot of players. The players complemented one another tactically and we had a well established game plan.

This year we have sought to change many things - I think early in the season it was clear we wanted to move to a game based more on pressing higher up the pitch and a more narrow attacking midfield complemented by width from fullbacks. Very quickly key components of that plan showed problems:
Lucas struggled to get the right balance with Mascherano - either he played too deep and the whole team moved nowhere or he was too high up and teams (Spurs and Villa in particular IIRC) ran through the centre at will. Aquilani's injurt meant that we had fewer options in that area.
Johnson was quickly shown to not be able to hold a man up consistently. If you want to pay with attacking fullbacks pushed up for width the ability to get back quickly and do this is key. On the other flank the sole option of Insua has shown cracks as he is still learning and trying to progress as an individual in a team shorn of confidence which is also trying to evolve it's pattern of play is hard. Aurelio's injuries were a bit of a bugger too.
Riera and Benayoun have been a/ poor and b/ injury prone.

I think there is an argument that Rafa tried to do to many things at too many levels this season. He was changing the way we played at first team level and arranging for a revolution in youth development too. It is possible that some things were given less attention than they needed due to this. I don't think it should be viewed as an ongoing problem though - we have new people in charge of the youth development and reserve levels and Rafa seems happy with them.

I think the problem is that when many problems occur and many changes are made people tend to assume that all the changes were the wrong ones. We had a huge number of coaching and conditioning personnel changes last year and we had a lot of injuries it is possible we made mistakes, it is equally possible that the transition was painful but that it will be worth it in the long run.

Obvious example of people who have taken blame are Pellegrino and the fitness/strength coaches who came from Newcastle. People don't really know what they do but put the problems in defense and injuries at their door. I'm not even sure that the Newcastle coaches worked with either clubs first team.



The question though really is whether Rafa should, with more control have not done better in at least some of those areas. Certainly some of them have always been the preserve of a manager and he needs to take responsibility for them (I'm not meaning to imply that he doesn't - one of his great strengths is his willingness to accept this).

I agree that he didn't really have the funds to make the transformation he wanted but he did have funds and I think a viable question is - would he have been better off going for quantity rather than gambling on someone like Aquilani who if it paid off would have provided top level quality? This season the PL has been a slog and I think it would have been a better option but no one foresaw the way the PL would go this year last summer and most wanted one or two top class players rather than a bulking out of the squad.

I also think moves like getting in the Australian doctor seem to show that Rafa is looking at the correct areas to move forward. Given our financial problems we need to get all the resources we have out on the field as often as possible. Even another 5 games of Gerrard and Torres at full fitness might have made a huge difference this season.

Top post mate.

[Exiled_red]

I don't think we played above our level last year - I think that we reached a peak of what that squad was capable of and it was a peak to which an in form Alonso was key. The blend of personalities in that squad was good and hence we got the most out of a lot of players. The players complemented one another tactically and we had a well established game plan.

This year we have sought to change many things - I think early in the season it was clear we wanted to move to a game based more on pressing higher up the pitch and a more narrow attacking midfield complemented by width from fullbacks. Very quickly key components of that plan showed problems:
Lucas struggled to get the right balance with Mascherano - either he played too deep and the whole team moved nowhere or he was too high up and teams (Spurs and Villa in particular IIRC) ran through the centre at will. Aquilani's injury meant that we had fewer options in that area.
Johnson was quickly shown to not be able to hold a man up consistently. If you want to pay with attacking fullbacks pushed up for width then the ability to get back quickly and do this is key. On the other flank the sole option of Insua has shown cracks as he is still learning. Trying to progress as an individual in a team shorn of confidence which is also trying to evolve it's pattern of play is hard. Aurelio's injuries were a bit of a bugger too.
Riera and Benayoun have been a/ poor and b/ injury prone.

I think there is an argument that Rafa tried to do to many things at too many levels this season. He was changing the way we played at first team level and arranging for a revolution in youth development too. It is possible that some things were given less attention than they needed due to this. I don't think it should be viewed as an ongoing problem though - we have new people in charge of the youth development and reserve levels and Rafa seems happy with them.

I think the problem is that when many problems occur and many changes are made people tend to assume that all the changes were the wrong ones. We had a huge number of coaching and conditioning personnel changes last year and we had a lot of injuries it is possible we made mistakes, it is equally possible that the transition was painful but that it will be worth it in the long run.

Obvious example of people who have taken blame are Pellegrino and the fitness/strength coaches who came from Newcastle. People don't really know what they do but put the problems in defense and injuries at their door. I'm not even sure that the Newcastle coaches worked with either clubs first team.



The question though really is whether Rafa should, with more control have not done better in at least some of those areas. Certainly some of them have always been the preserve of a manager and he needs to take responsibility for them (I'm not meaning to imply that he doesn't - one of his great strengths is his willingness to accept this).

I agree that he didn't really have the funds to make the transformation he wanted but he did have funds and I think a viable question is - would he have been better off going for quantity rather than gambling on someone like Aquilani who if it paid off would have provided top level quality? This season the PL has been a slog and I think it would have been a better option but no one foresaw the way the PL would go this year last summer and most wanted one or two top class players rather than a bulking out of the squad.

I also think moves like getting in the Australian doctor seem to show that Rafa is looking at the correct areas to move forward. Given our financial problems we need to get all the resources we have out on the field as often as possible. Even another 5 games of Gerrard and Torres at full fitness might have made a huge difference this season.

I agree with most of what you say but I stand by my point that I think the position and number of points we obtained flattered us somewhat. Perhaps I phrased the term badly in the inital post, we were obviously capable of that level of performance as we showed, but I feel it was very much towards the peak of what the squad was capable of, and IMO not sustainable over a longer period of time.

I think because of the final league standing people are looking back on last season with blinkers on, we had some very average and even poor performances last season (particularly in the first half of the season) but we managed to get results, through character, determination or luck, call it what you will. But in short we got the breaks, we scored alot of last minute goals and we kept key players on the whole injury free.

The debate about quality vs quantity is a tough one, for years we've been buying squad players and people have been complaining about lack of quality, this year was the first time we've been able to buy player to slot straight into the first team.

[dww]

I agree with most of what you say but I stand by my point that I think the position and number of points we obtained flattered us somewhat. Perhaps I phrased the term badly in the inital post, we were obviously capable of that level of performance as we showed, but I feel it was very much towards the peak of what the squad was capable of, and IMO not sustainable over a longer period of time.

I think because of the final league standing people are looking back on last season with blinkers on, we had some very average and even poor performances last season (particularly in the first half of the season) but we managed to get results, through character, determination or luck, call it what you will. But in short we got the breaks, we scored alot of last minute goals and we kept key players on the whole injury free.

I don't really understand why people think that last minute goals are some sort of luck thing. The last 10 minutes of a game is the time when a goal is most likely. You see season in season out that the teams playing the best football get late goals - United are famous for it and Arsenal have played some of the best football this year and have a record of doing it. It is more often than not a function of the work put in earlier in the game and the quality of the team in terms of finishing than it is of luck.

We had a fair amount of injuries to Agger, Gerrard and Torres last season and I seem to remember Xabi being out for a bit.

I think on balance what we achieved last season was about right.

I do agree though that there were troughs as well as peaks (I'm not sure this isn't true of all teams for example United played some god awful stuff last season and in fact this too). There were things that could have been improved on and some of the changes instigated at the start of the season seemed designed to counter many of them.

We lacked a plan B last season but unfortunately we have lacked options this season too - a big problem was the fact that Riera became a much diminished force as he at least offered us a different option.

The debate about quality vs quantity is a tough one, for years we've been buying squad players and people have been complaining about lack of quality, this year was the first time we've been able to buy player to slot straight into the first team.

I think it is the first time we chose to do it - largely because we were replacing big loses. Even in doing so we had to take a gamble on someone like Aquilani and (at least for this season) it didn't come off. I think in general it is the right policy (along with the production of young players) but this season the PL has been about the ability to slog on and keep going, keep getting results despite huge injury lists and **** pitches draining players and teams playing a high physicality little invention brand of football even more than usual.

[Exiled_red]

The luck wasn't just due to the last minute goals, I agree it is understandable that alot of goals are scored late in games, teams become tired and superior levels of fitness, and additional pressure tells. The luck aspect for me comes from the way we played; there were multiple games where on the balance of the game a draw would have been a fair result, but we managed a win. There were many times where we got more than we deserved, I know this is part of the game but for me it happened a disproportionate amount last season. In terms of injuries we were lucky in that when we had injuries they didn't all come together we could usually put 9 or 10 of our first 11 out.

Perhaps I'm just not used to things going in our favour to such an extent I'm used to seeing things like this going in the mancs or chelseas favour but not ours, and this has affected my perspective.

[BillobShaisley]

....

I think on balance what we achieved last season was about right..

So you think we should expect as a matter of right to only lose twice a season? In a league with Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal you think 2 loses is what we should expect? I think we were ****ing lucky to get where we did.

[Roboklopp]

We were also scabbed out of points too. Stoke springs to mind in particular.

[JudgeRed]

Our results against the other top 4 teams last year can't be relied on happening every year. Our formation and tactics last year provided more goals and the best goal difference so the idea that we need an entirely new approach is just one of frustration and emotion rather than any real insight.

We're short of a leader on the pitch and someone to pull the strings and we have a couple too many big headed whingers in the squad that need to stop sulking or **** off.

[Exiled_red]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...087159,00.html

Benitez may have to sell
Liverpool boss waiting on investors to keep big names
Last updated: 11th April 2010

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez has conceded he may need to sell one of his big name players this summer.

Liverpool's American owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks, who are reportedly set to appoint British Airways chief Martin Broughton as their new chairman, are actively looking to find a buyer.

But Benitez concedes that if no new investment is found, he could be forced to sell one of his big names - which would mean either Steven Gerrard or Fernando Torres going.

"I don't think I will have to sell a big player, but it will depend on investors so I cannot guarantee we won't have to sell. Our idea is to keep the spine of the team," he told the People.

"Sometimes you have to manage by selling two or three players who aren't playing too many games, but that does not bring in any big money if they are not playing."

Benitez agrees with recent assessments from Torres and Jamie Carragher that he needs at least four players next term and suggesting to that he would need between £60million and £80million to do this.

"I don't want to talk about figures, but if you analyse what Fernando and Carra have been saying, they were talking about four or five players," he continued.

"It doesn't matter if it is four or five or three or five, the cost of a top-class player is about £15million or £20million.

"So with three or four players, you start counting and I think we need up to four players.

"It is difficult to compete with other clubs who may spend big money again in the summer. Last year we tried to keep players and extend contracts and tried to add some players.

"It depends on the money available, and if you don't have too much money then you can't make any mistakes in the transfer market.

"It is not easy, I always say that we have to do almost everything perfectly and if we make a mistake in the transfer window it is extra difficult for us to manage.

"We have had problems with Alberto Aquilani because his ankle injury has taken longer than expected [to recover].

"We are talking about pressure. Sometimes you bring in someone who needs to settle down or they have a problem, so you cannot guarantee anything.

"Other teams have plenty of players worth £20million who are not playing, two or three players in the same position sometimes, but we cannot do that."

Jovanovic deal

Benitez did confirm that one summer deal, for Standard Liege's Milan Jovanovic, was just about complete.

"A deal for Jovanovic is now very close and our scouts are working very hard," he said.

"We have our targets and we have to decide when to try and buy them, but sometimes it is too early.

"Maybe they are still playing in the Champions League or at the end of the season in their local leagues and you have to wait a bit.

"The World Cup is always very dangerous because if one player is playing really well then his value goes up, so I think it is important to do things before if we can."

Benitez also admits that the club need to improve on their record of brining through fresh talent.

"I think for us to bring players in through the system is crucial," said Benitez.

"This is the first year we have had control of the Academy and it is clear that we have not produced a player in the last 13 years, so that was a big problem."

[dww]

So you think we should expect as a matter of right to only lose twice a season? In a league with Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal you think 2 loses is what we should expect? I think we were ****ing lucky to get where we did.

No, but that's a ridiculously reductive way to look at it. I think the points total and final league position was about right - there were games we drew we could easily have won. Last year Arsenal were crap for about half a season. Chelsea were slightly worse than they are this season when they are failing to run away with what is a pitiful league this year, United were better than they are now with Christiano Ronaldo providing them one more really top level player. You could argue that United were lucky to get the decision that allowed them to get their long run of 1-0's but they were on balance the best squad in the division in my view and won the league on merit much as it pains me.