Benítez says he needs fresh investment to compete for title

[kris90210]

Neither have arsenal.

Forget the title for a minute.

Our squad is not so ****, that we should be looking at 7th place.

Our squad is not so ****, that we cant win at Pompey, Wolves, Wigan etc.

Our squad is not so ****, that we should be losing 10 league games.

So why have the above things happened? Because we have not got the best out of our squad and seen it perform to it's maximum capability.

We do not need spending like Chelsea and City, to just be in the top four. Teams who have spent far less than us have managed to win at Wolves, Pompey and Wigan. Teams who have spent far less than us, have lost comfortably less than 10 league games.

We're in the mess we're in, because our current squad, whilst being good enough to be in the top 4, has not been used properly.

Thats a good post. And you can't really argue with that. I think that where you and pro Rafa individuals (I'm somewhere in the middle at the moment) differ is on whether there are mitigating circumstances.

[dww]

Neither have arsenal.

Neither did they lose a key component of their team and have to replace it with reduce money. A large part of Arsenal's success is built on continuity and the fact that through luck and good judgement they have been able to sell key players on their own terms.

Forget the title for a minute.

Our squad is not so ****, that we should be looking at 7th place.

In a situation where we have had limited impact from our two genuine top players this season is it better than Spurs or City though? I think we paid for the decision to go for quality over quantity in the summer. This season has been a real slog and with lessened impact not only from Gerrard and Torres but Benayoun and Riera due to fitness (and also admittedly attitude issues which could be down to management) I think it is more than possible that there were issues beyond the leadership that have affected the way things have panned out this season.

[Lecter]

over 5 yrs?

They have spent more than that in two seasons and havent won the title in fact they have spent more than that to get into the top 4

As for your £90 million over 5 years its not even an accurate figure when the reality is nearer £80 million over 6 years giving a nett spend each season of a shade over £13 million

[Craig_H]

Neither did they lose a key component of their team and have to replace it with reduce money. A large part of Arsenal's success is built on continuity and the fact that through luck and good judgement they have been able to sell key players on their own terms.

They've lost a key component of their team for most of the season, in RvP.

They've had an absolute ABUNDANCE of injuries, yet they're still fighting for the title. Not hanging onto a top four spot - that's fighting for the title.

There's a chasm of difference between what they're doing this year, and us. They have a weaker squad, less world class players, less experience and have had more injuries. So why are they so much better off than us?

Could it be the manager?

[Lecter]

Neither have arsenal.

Forget the title for a minute.

Our squad is not so ****, that we should be looking at 7th place.

Our squad is not so ****, that we cant win at Pompey, Wolves, Wigan etc.

Our squad is not so ****, that we should be losing 10 league games.

So why have the above things happened? Because we have not got the best out of our squad and seen it perform to it's maximum capability.

We do not need spending like Chelsea and City, to just be in the top four. Teams who have spent far less than us have managed to win at Wolves, Pompey and Wigan. Teams who have spent far less than us, have lost comfortably less than 10 league games.

We're in the mess we're in, because our current squad, whilst being good enough to be in the top 4, has not been used properly.

Again this is so blinkered its unbelievable

Our two best players have spent large proportions of the season out through injury and anyone saying "it doesnt affect many of the other top 4 teams" should take a long hard look at recent results down the East Lancs Road in regards to Rooney

Bottomline is without Rooney for large proportions of this season United would be nowhere near where they are now

To me its not so black and white as to put all of our current failings on Rafa,

There are so many factors that have affected us this season, one of which is Rafa but there are many many other issues / situations that have impacted on our season

[Lecter]

They've lost a key component of their team for most of the season, in RvP.

They've had an absolute ABUNDANCE of injuries, yet they're still fighting for the title. Not hanging onto a top four spot - that's fighting for the title.

There's a chasm of difference between what they're doing this year, and us. They have a weaker squad, less world class players, less experience and have had more injuries. So why are they so much better off than us?

Could it be the manager?

I would like to see how United coped without Rooney for large proportion of the season

I'm not convinced Van Persie is as critical for Arsenal as Rooney is for United or Torres is for us

To me Arsenals key play is Fabregas

[Exiled_red]

I would like to see how United coped without Rooney for large proportion of the season

I'm not convinced Van Persie is as critical for Arsenal as Rooney is for United or Torres is for us

To me Arsenals key play is Fabregas

[Lecter]

In a situation where we have had limited impact from our two genuine top players this season is it better than Spurs or City though? I think we paid for the decision to go for quality over quantity in the summer. This season has been a real slog and with lessened impact not only from Gerrard and Torres but Benayoun and Riera due to fitness (and also admittedly attitude issues which could be down to management) I think it is more than possible that there were issues beyond the leadership that have affected the way things have panned out this season.

Agreed there are so many issues that have affected our season

Some of which are Rafa's fault, others are absolutely beyond his control

[Craig_H]

Again this is so blinkered its unbelievable

Our two best players have spent large proportions of the season out through injury and anyone saying "it doesnt affect many of the other top 4 teams" should take a long hard luck at recent results down the East Lancs Road in regards to Rooney

Bottomline is without Rooney for large proportions of this season United would be nowhere near where they are now

To me its not so black and white as to put all of our current failings on Rafa,

There are so many factors that have affected us this season, one of which is Rafa but there are many many other issues / situations that have impacted on our season

Van Persie and Arsenal? They've played much of the season with JUST bendnter as their striker, and they're still in with a shot of winning it.

Your argument just doesnt stack up there. What if Rafa had bought a quality striker instead of AA and played Gerrard CM? We've suffered when Nando's been out, largely because rafa CHOSE to put Aquilani before a striker. You'll say that he was expecting more money, which may be true, but the bigger priority is always the one you should address first. He didnt.

But anyway, Torres didnt play all the time last year, and we nearly won it.

The drop in our level this year is vastly disproportionate to the the amount by which the squad has been weakened. Vastly.

I'm not putting ALL our failings on rafa, you're not putting ANY of them on him (despite your attempts to say otherwise). You'll whisper the words 'blame' and 'rafa' and then shout with volume about money and the owners.

[Craig_H]

Agreed there are so man issues that have affected our season

Some of which are Rafa's fault, others are absolutely beyond his control

If none of these issues had happened, we could've challenged for the title.

The way i see it, we've had problems in regards of investment, and problems with management mistakes.

With neither of these problems, we'd have challenged for the title.

If the owners had backed the manager and he'd made poor decisions/mistakes, we'd have probably been in the top four.

If the manager hadnt made poor decisions/mistakes, even without board backing, we'd have probably been in the top four.

As it's turned out, we've had no backing AND dreadful management decisions/mistakes. So we'll end up nowhere near the top four.

The way i see it, both are equally at fault. You seem to blame the owners with a weighting of about 90% and only put 10% on rafa.

To paraphrase one of your other posts to me earlier today - i think that's bollocks.

[Craig_H]

I would like to see how United coped without Rooney for large proportion of the season

I'm not convinced Van Persie is as critical for Arsenal as Rooney is for United or Torres is for us

To me Arsenals key play is Fabregas

Funny that.

I'd wager that if Fabregas had been out all season and RvP had been fit, you'd be saying RvP was their key player.

[Craig_H]

Thats a good post. And you can't really argue with that. I think that where you and pro Rafa individuals (I'm somewhere in the middle at the moment) differ is on whether there are mitigating circumstances.

I agree about mitigating circumstances - but ones which change a runners up spot (4 points from being champions) into maybe a 4th place spot.

I dont think the circumstances have been of the ilk that should turn runners up into 7th place.

The circumstances which cause THAT much of a catastrophe are a combination of both board ****wittery and management balls-uppery.

[Vermilion]

I would like to see how United coped without Rooney for large proportion of the season

I'm not convinced Van Persie is as critical for Arsenal as Rooney is for United or Torres is for us

To me Arsenals key play is Fabregas

Aye, all very true, we've seen how they've suffered with him missing for just a couple of games, and agree Fabregas is far more important to Arsenal than Van Persie.

[Lecter]

Funny that.

I'd wager that if Fabregas had been out all season and RvP had been fit, you'd be saying RvP was their key player.

Yeah whatever

[dww]

Funny that.

I'd wager that if Fabregas had been out all season and RvP had been fit, you'd be saying RvP was their key player.

I can only imagine how much you would hate people making a similar argument against you.

I think most people before the season would have called Fabregas as Arsenals most important player. Not to say that RvP in unimportant, merely less key that Fabregas. I'd agree that RvP is/was an important player for them but it's not as if they haven't been used to playing without him in recent seasons. I'd wager that over his Arsenal career he has averaged playing less than half their league games.