Transfers - Who is deciding who comes, who stays and who leaves?

[DannyMan2006]

I think this belongs here, as opposed to the off field speculation.

Basically, I am getting the distinct impression that it had already been decided by someone at the club the certain players are saleable assets. TBH, I can accept that in part. Some pleyers will have made it clear they want to leave and so it is no problem that wheels had been put in motion prior to Roys appointment.

However.

I am now also getting the impression that some of the players that are reputed targets of the club have had nothing to do with Hodgson and as such will not be his choices.

Does anyone think this is a dangerous way to about our business? It is a system that is very popular on the continent, but is it something that we are comfortable with?

I have no doubt that a lot of work will have gone into identifying any possible targets. But it is a managers decision over who plays, and there is always the chance he may not quite fancy a player upon seeing him. As such, we could potentially be wasting our cash on players Hodgson would rather not have.

But there are other reasons this could be happening. Hodgson has clearly in the summer been working for Fulham and going after their targets (Senderos for one). But when you work for Fulham there is no doubt that you look at different targets as opposed to what you would if you were Liverpool manager.

So as well as sorting his team out and getting them ready fro the new season, he would also have a massive task in the transfer market, and be at a detriment as he would not be aware of all the new players now available to him. This could mean good quality additions on reasonable prices slipping through the net.

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So what do YOU think? Should it be Hodgson alone finding our targets? Or does he need a help at this point in time? We clearly need players, and if he doesn't have the knowledge then what else can be done?

Hodgson clearly sets out how he would like to recruit players by mentioning how he personally would never commit to a target until he has personally watched that player over time. He will have clearly watched all the possible Fulham targets for the summer. But he's at a different ball game now.

So what to do?

[kris90210]

I think this belongs here, as opposed to the off field speculation.

Basically, I am getting the distinct impression that it had already been decided by someone at the club the certain players are saleable assets. TBH, I can accept that in part. Some pleyers will have made it clear they want to leave and so it is no problem that wheels had been put in motion prior to Roys appointment.

However.

I am now also getting the impression that some of the players that are reputed targets of the club have had nothing to do with Hodgson and as such will not be his choices.

Does anyone think this is a dangerous way to about our business? It is a system that is very popular on the continent, but is it something that we are comfortable with?

I have no doubt that a lot of work will have gone into identifying any possible targets. But it is a managers decision over who plays, and there is always the chance he may not quite fancy a player upon seeing him. As such, we could potentially be wasting our cash on players Hodgson would rather not have.

But there are other reasons this could be happening. Hodgson has clearly in the summer been working for Fulham and going after their targets (Senderos for one). But when you work for Fulham there is no doubt that you look at different targets as opposed to what you would if you were Liverpool manager.

So as well as sorting his team out and getting them ready fro the new season, he would also have a massive task in the transfer market, and be at a detriment as he would not be aware of all the new players now available to him. This could mean good quality additions on reasonable prices slipping through the net.

------

So what do YOU think? Should it be Hodgson alone finding our targets? Or does he need a help at this point in time? We clearly need players, and if he doesn't have the knowledge then what else can be done?

Hodgson clearly sets out how he would like to recruit players by mentioning how he personally would never commit to a target until he has personally watched that player over time. He will have clearly watched all the possible Fulham targets for the summer. But he's at a different ball game now.

So what to do?

I think that there is an understanding that certain players will be allowed to leave. For example, Hodgson said that Insua has been in talks about leaving since before he was appointed.

Saying that, Purslow did state that no players would be allowed to leave until the new manager came in. And this was the case, as was shown with Benayoun.

So I think the final say is with Hodgson. Also, when responding to speculation on Remy signing, he said that before he would sign a player he would need to analyse his performances - something he had not had a chance to do. Once again, this suggests to me that he is the one calling the shots.

On the one hand, I think the idea of a director of football is a good one. Someone who is removed from the players and can make impartial decisions. But at the end of the day, it is the manager who stands or falls based on transfers and so it's only right that it's the manager who has the final say.

[The_Positive_One]

I think cecil is following Rafa's in and out plan, even tho he was sacked/let go...

[cream]

I think cecil is following Rafa's in and out plan, even tho he was sacked/let go...

Yeah, I think the plans would've already been in place, a lot of big clubs are being run this way having a technical director an all that.

[G]

I think that there is an understanding that certain players will be allowed to leave. For example, Hodgson said that Insua has been in talks about leaving since before he was appointed.

Saying that, Purslow did state that no players would be allowed to leave until the new manager came in. And this was the case, as was shown with Benayoun.

So I think the final say is with Hodgson. Also, when responding to speculation on Remy signing, he said that before he would sign a player he would need to analyse his performances - something he had not had a chance to do. Once again, this suggests to me that he is the one calling the shots.

On the one hand, I think the idea of a director of football is a good one. Someone who is removed from the players and can make impartial decisions. But at the end of the day, it is the manager who stands or falls based on transfers and so it's only right that it's the manager who has the final say.

Which could mean we don't sign anyone because up till a couple of weeks ago Roy would have been watching players with Fulham in mind.it should be a very different quality of player he would be thinking of now.

to that extent I think if we do make signings they are either players Roy knows well(hence Beattie and Scharner being mentioned) or they will be players who he's taking a punt on due to our scouting system reports and I think alot of supporters have reservations about the quality of signings that have supposedly been down to Macia so far.

[DannyMan2006]

Which could mean we don't sign anyone because up till a couple of weeks ago Roy would have been watching players with Fulham in mind.it should be a very different quality of player he would be thinking of now.

to that extent I think if we do make signings they are either players Roy knows well(hence Beattie and Scharner being mentioned) or they will be players who he's taking a punt on due to our scouting system reports and I think alot of supporters have reservations about the quality of signings that have supposedly been down to Macia so far.

Which players have beend signed due to Macia so far though?

[G]

Which players have beend signed due to Macia so far though?

I've read that Dossena,Voronin,Krompkamp and Riera were his recommendations.To be fair to him we don't hear about any involvement he may have had in our success stories but we haven't had any real success in our recent transfer history,maybe due to his **** offerings or lack of money for any good ones he's put forward.

EDIT: those names aren't set in stone but are some of what I've read put down to Macia over the years.Maybe a bit of fog of war stuff comes into play with him cos he fell out with Rafa and is apparently quite close to Purslow

[DannyMan2006]

That's it though, we don't know which players he reccommended. And Rafa always had the biggest say.

This summer it seems Macia may be getting a bigger say for the first time.

[kris90210]

I've read that Dossena,Voronin,Krompkamp and Riera were his recommendations.To be fair to him we don't hear about any involvement he may have had in our success stories but we haven't had any real success in our recent transfer history,maybe due to his **** offerings or lack of money for any good ones he's put forward.

EDIT: those names aren't set in stone but are some of what I've read put down to Macia over the years.Maybe a bit of fog of war stuff comes into play with him cos he fell out with Rafa and is apparently quite close to Purslow

If that's true, it's surprising he still has a job!

[red g]

That's it though, we don't know which players he reccommended. And Rafa always had the biggest say.

This summer it seems Macia may be getting a bigger say for the first time.

One of Eduardo's earliest contribution was the discovery of Lazaros Christodoulopoulos, who was offered a trial by Liverpool. Lazaros was discovered while playing for PAOK. Lazaros did not travel with the Salonika squad pre-season tour of France, but instead went to Melwood to attend the Liverpool trial.

[Mostar]

I think that there is an understanding that certain players will be allowed to leave. For example, Hodgson said that Insua has been in talks about leaving since before he was appointed.

Saying that, Purslow did state that no players would be allowed to leave until the new manager came in. And this was the case, as was shown with Benayoun.

So I think the final say is with Hodgson. Also, when responding to speculation on Remy signing, he said that before he would sign a player he would need to analyse his performances - something he had not had a chance to do. Once again, this suggests to me that he is the one calling the shots.

On the one hand, I think the idea of a director of football is a good one. Someone who is removed from the players and can make impartial decisions. But at the end of the day, it is the manager who stands or falls based on transfers and so it's only right that it's the manager who has the final say.

My take on this is a pretty straightforward. The decision who to sell and who to buy would need to be strictly in the hands of a manager as ultimately he is the one responsible for the team performance and success on the pitch. In that process he should rely on scouting team, given his ideas what type of players he is interested in, to identify the new potential players in order to improve his team consistently. A director of football would also be involved but only for business stand point where he would be in charge of negotiating players sales and purchases that Roy either wants to sell as they don't feet his vision or he wants to go after to add to his squad.

[red g]

I seem to remember posting this first time round and thought it was quite interesting

RAFA'S BOOTROOM: EDUARDO MACIA
Paul Hassall 24 July 2008


In the latest in our series of in-depth chats with members of Rafael Benitez's Melwood staff we spoke to chief scout Eduardo Macia about life at Liverpool.

Whether he's scouring Europe for the next big thing or casting a keen eye over the latest South American superstar, Eduardo Macia knows exactly what he wants when it comes to signing the right player for Liverpool.

In an in-depth interview with Liverpoolfc.tv he talks openly about his success with Rafael Benitez at Valencia, how he came to join the Reds and how he is playing his part in trying to secure a golden future for the club.

Eduardo, you've been at the club since 2006 as Chief Scout. How did you come to join Liverpool?

Well, Rafa was trying to procure me every day. I met him through Valencia and then he asked me to come here. Rafa said I need a chief scout to head up our global scouting network. He wanted to build up the system. That's not to say I wasn't happy where I was. I was very happy in Valencia. It was a good life that I really enjoyed. So coming here was a big decision. If I hadn't been happy in Spain then it would have been an easy choice to come to England. But it wasn't easy, although I do think I made the right choice. Along with the decision to get married this was the biggest choice I've ever had to make in my life. My dad was a fan of Liverpool and he told me all about Dalglish, Hansen and Phil Thompson. In Spain before the Premier League started we'd get one English game on TV every month and it was nearly always Liverpool. So for me the club had a mythical quality about it. Now to be working for this club and with these people makes me feel like I'm very lucky. People tell me that all the time.

What about your time at Valencia. You were very successful there...

We won the league with a fantastic team. There were a lot of young players involved like Marchena, Baraja, Vicente, Angulo, Albelda... From that Rafa knew I could help him build a strong squad. We won two league titles in Spain and the UEFA Cup in the space of three years. That was despite the fact that Barcelona, Real Madrid, Deportivo and Atletico all had more money than us. But we were working with the idea of combining all the older players such as Carboni, Anglomar, Luque with the up and coming players. With those guys we knew we had a foundation to build a great team.

What about your future with Liverpool?

Now we are building for the future here. We've brought in a lot of young players in the last few years. Guys who are 16, 17, 18 years old and they all have the mentality we want. That's why they won the reserve league last season. We know they can still improve as players, but they have the right mentality. Guys like Nemeth, San Jose, Bruna, Spearing, Darby, Insua, Gulacsi... Now we are hoping to add more players to that quality. It's a young side, in Spain it would be described as a B team. The idea is to provide first team players for the future so that when they are 20, 21, 22 they are ready for the Premier League. Another type of player we are bringing in is someone like Lucas Leiva who was one of the best young players in Brazil and then there's Ryan Babel. Both of them are in their early 20s and are players for the future. On the next level it's Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger. They are still young, but have lots of experience and can go straight into the first team and should be here for many years. The idea is that in the future we will be bringing through enough players for the first team that the manager might only need to buy one or two players every summer. He won't need to go out and sign four or five. Steven Gerrard, Carra, Sami Hyypia and Finnan are all fantastic veterans. And we've tried to add to that with guys like Kuyt, Alonso, Reina and tried to unite the team. It's not possible to spend £200m to win the Premier League. We can't do that so we have another way. Now Rafa is happy with the young players we have and wants to continue improving the senior squad.

You talk about looking for players with the right mentality. Do you feel the Liverpool squad have the same winning mentality as the Valencia team you were involved with?

This group of players we have now is one of the best I've seen during my time here. I think it's better than the squad we had at Valencia when we won the league and UEFA Cup in 2004. That was nearly five years ago now and the level of football has gone up since then. The game has progressed a lot in such a short space of time. That's what we've got to keep doing, improving. If you're not then you're going backwards. Even when you win something you've still got to try and become better by bringing in more quality. For example, Lucas Leiva says give me the ball, even if I make a mistake I'm not afraid to take responsibility in big games. That's the mentality we require; strong players who can think for themselves and don't need to be told what to do. They are clever guys who can make their own decisions on the pitch and help you win games. Mentality of the player is the most important thing. There are probably a million players with quality in the world. That's not enough. I don't want someone who is fantastic in September and November. I want someone who is fantastic all year round. If you want to be a successful team you need players who can still be at their best when it comes to the end of the season and the big games arrive almost every few days. It's not a matter of quality. You can improve a player's fitness, technique and make them tactically better. What you can't do is give them the mentality. You can be a fantastic player at a lower level team but if you want to come here then you've got to be a winner. When you play for a big club, particularly in the Premier League, everyone else will be doing their utmost to beat you every weekend. You've got to be able to deal with that and produce 100 per cent every week.

Can you explain to us how your scouting network works?

We have scouts located all over the world. They live in the country that they cover. That's the way we like it to be. If you are based in England and just travel over to watch the player you don't get the full picture. It's easy to see if a player is performing well or not. We want to know everything about the player, not just how he performs. For example, Lucas Leiva, our scout watched him and asked lots of different people about him. Then we spent two weeks in Brazil watching him training as well as playing. From that we hope to be certain about a player. Of course you can still make a mistake but this method reduces the chances. Sometimes even when you know everything you can still get it wrong. There are lots of factors to consider, such as language, wife or girlfriend not settling in a new country. You can still get it wrong, but we hope to make the least number of mistakes. And it's not only a system we use when signing first team players, we also use it for bringing in younger lads. If you are 17 or 23 it doesn't matter. If your family is not okay or your mentality isn't right then it won't work. So we spend a lot of time gathering lots of info on possible signings.

What qualities do you look for in your scouts?

They've got to be totally professional. The scouts who work for us are not friends of mine. I never work with friends. We use guys who have worked for big clubs like Real Madrid or been a sporting director in Italy and been at the biggest club in Brazil. They are all very experienced, strong people. They don't say maybe, they give definite answers on players. They are usually the best scouts in each country. I think the best scouts should find you the best players. Being discreet is very important. Nobody can know who you are. I try to stay out of the spotlight because it's more beneficial if people don't recognise my face. I don't like to be in the newspaper. If they know you then they will be able to know what player you are looking at. You are working for your club, nobody else so it's important not to show other clubs what you're doing. You will have Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich and Lyon all chasing the same players. They are all powerful clubs with a lot of money so you have to make sure everything you do is secret. The scouts can't be telling anyone they work for the club. So if your scouts can stay discreet it helps.

Would you say scouting is something of an art form?

No. Football is not a science, therefore scouting can't be either. It's all about decisions and relationships. One and one doesn't always add up to two in football. What you think will work doesn't always and vice versa. For example Ryan Babel's impact in the Arsenal Champions League game. 44,000 people in Anfield and they all have different ideas about what to do after Arsenal score. We're going out of the competition and then Rafa sends on Ryan Babel. Within seconds he's won a penalty and then he scores a goal. That is something that's beyond your control. So a scout can never be 100 per cent sure that a player will go on to be a success in the first team. But you've got to find players who have all the requirements to do that.

How many times will you watch a player before deciding whether he is the right man for Liverpool?

Sometimes five times, sometimes ten. Sometimes twice and you are sure because you already know everything about him. Normally we watch them five, six or maybe seven times - and it's not just me. At the end, when you hand the report to Rafa you have to be certain. I have to convince Rafa that this player is right for Liverpool. He is the most difficult one to convince. You have to believe in the player's capabilities. If Rafa isn't sure and you're not convinced yourself then the player will never be signed. When you are starting out it's a long process. Sometimes it's more difficult to find younger players rather than senior guys. When they are 16, 17 years of age they play less games. So making a decision with the scout, working with Rafa, and then finalising the move with Rick Parry is a very long process. When you are watching the unveiling press conference everyone is very happy. You are relaxed at that stage. That is a fantastic feeling. People are very happy when the player signs. They say: 'yes, we've signed a new player,' but behind the scenes it's a difficult process.

How does your family cope with your job. I assume your job involves very long hours...

I never stop. Even at the weekends I am still going to watch a game on a Saturday and Sunday. It could be an U17 or U19 UEFA tournament. Or during the season I might be attending a Champions League game on Tuesday and Wednesday and then a UEFA Cup game on a Thursday. It's a special job that you have to love a lot. If you don't then it would become impossible. I don't see much of my family, although they are very happy here. When my wife and young twins went to Spain recently she said it was too hot. That shows how accustomed they've become to life here. Another problem is the language. I try to teach them Spanish and also the dialect from my home town. While they're obviously learning English now. It gets very confusing at times. When they started saying: 'ta' for thank you I didn't know what they were talking about because I'd never heard of it! But I love this job and I'm proud to work for the club; it's a price worth paying.

What does an average day at Melwood involve for you?

We start with a breakfast meeting when we talk about everything that has to be done. I have to organise the scouting team. Some days I chat with Rafa and update him on different players. It's not a typical office routine. It varies from day to day. Scouting is not set every day. You are working looking for players and everything can change quickly. For example you might plan to watch an U18 game but if the player you are checking on doesn't feature then you can't work. It means you always need a plan b and sometimes even a plan c. You have to be flexible.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features ... 4-1204.htm (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/featu...80724-1204.htm)

[dww]

I tend to think that what you should be looking for is a transfer strategy - i.e. a set of transfers that improve the squad in the way that the manager wants in order to play in the style(s) he wishes to use (ideally in the long term the club would aim to have a 'house style' in the way Barcelona do that was invariant between managers). As such in a set up such as ours I think that the manager has to be the one heading the transfer selections as he is the one with the strategic view.

As has been pointed out Roy has a disadvantage in that he has not been in a position to think of targets suitable for us as subjects for his scrutiny until recently. For this reason he may have to trust scouts, Macia and his contacts at other clubs more than he usually would. However handing over responsibility for the process to any individual (such as Macia) I think would be a mistake.

If that is the way we want to go then we need to appoint someone that Roy respects and trusts as a director of football and allow them to take those jobs away from him.

Personally I think any rating of Rafa and Macias input into previous transfers is a thankless task as we don't have any way to know what eight each had or how personally they were involved in the evaluations.

[G]

In my mind Roy's statement yesterday regarding Remy will be quite telling once the window is closed and we've done our transfer business.It should help clarify once and for all whether he really has total,some or no say at all in our business.

[kris90210]

I'd love to be a scout - dream job!

In fairness to the bloke, wasn't he the first person from the backroom staff that was confirmed to be staying? That must mean he is highly thought of.