Liverpoool v Man City Post Match thread

[Craig_H]

I would.

Part of the reason we're in such a mess, is their shockingly inept performances last season.

[Shaggy]

I would.

Part of the reason we're in such a mess, is their shockingly inept performances last season.

With Torres the worry is that it seems he's been promised stuff and it doesn't look like happening. If this **** carries on he'll be off.

[Craig_H]

He also promised to commit himself to us til, what was it, 2013?

He can jolly well honour that promise, instead of wanting to jump ship when **** happens.

People talk of fans as 'glory hunters', well so are these players, it seems, if they just want out as soon as the **** hits the fan.

[Shaggy]

I know how you feel. It's ****.

Nando cut a pretty despondent figure tonight, I thought.

[red g]

With Torres the worry is that it seems he's been promised stuff and it doesn't look like happening. If this **** carries on he'll be off.

to be fair all we know is whats been said in the press. I am clinging onto the fact that Broughton isnt a muppet and Torres knows more than we do.....and its worth staying for!!!

[Craig_H]

I know he isnt properly fit, but his stupid playground hero 'i can do everything myself' **** didnt help.

He needs to grow up and stop being a billy big bollocks, especially when he isnt even fit or sharp enough to do it.

[little dave hedgehog]

interesting dissection of the match over at zonalmarking.com (would just copy and paste, but includes graphics) :

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/23/man-city-3-0-liverpool-hodgsons-4-4-2-completely-outplayed/

[Craig_H]

The two-man strikeforce looked promising for Liverpool when Ngog and Torres combined nicely on the edge of the City penalty area after three minutes, but this was, amazingly, the final time one completed a pass to the either in the entire match.

Incredible.

[BrooklynRed]

Before the lineups confirmed:

There is NO WAY we're starting Lucas and Gerrard alone against Yaya Toure, Garreth Barry and Nigel De Jong. I can't believe this is true. For me, it has to be Mascherano AND Poulsen with Gerrard in the hole, Kuyt and Jova out wide and Torres alone up top. If Mascher doesn't play, it will have to be Lucas then, but we need three in the middle against City.

After the confirmation of a 4-4-2:

Mistake. I hope it doesn't bite us.

In addition to having posters yell at me about how Jovanovic is a left winger when I said he was far too fond of coming inside and making runs up the middle from deep and not offering much more than Kuyt on the wing, I would like to take this chance to say

I TOLD YOU SO.

It's ****ing obvious to me that we need a left winger and we never, ever need to play a 4-4-2 against a five man midfield ever again. As Dave posted above, this is a very good analysis of why this was a massive failure tonight:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/23/man-city-3-0-liverpool-hodgsons-4-4-2-completely-outplayed/

In fact, I would go so far as to argue that Joe Cole should be moved to the wing with Gerrard put in the hole and Lucas and Poulsen to start until we can get some reinforcements in midfield, which has gone from our strongest position, to one of our most threadbare. This was a shocking display by Hodgson and the players did him no favors at all. I could see trying it in the League Cup or something, but away against a contender? shocking.

[Shaggy]

Incredible.

Diabolical that. I'm pretty sure when Roy brought Ngog on the other night to play up with Nando, that was the first time they've played together. I'm sure they've never started together. Essentially two number 9s playing together - what the ****? It was doomed from the outset. Birdman nailed it in the match thread - Lucas ain't a CM in a 2, Kuyt not a midfielder in a 4 and the same goes for Jovanovic.

Add to that Agger at left back and the alien pairing up front, it was a disastrous 4-4-2 and I have no idea how Roy could think it would've worked. I'd love to hear his thinking on it - Mascherano's cuntishness seems to have led to a change of heart - why go from the solid looking 4-2-3-1 that was leaked to a crazy 4-4-2?

[Craig_H]

Following Liverpool’s disastrous final season under Rafael Benitez, a myth seems to have emerged that Gerrard is somehow better in the centre of midfield than he is playing just off Fernando Torres. Nothing could be further from the truth – Gerrard played the best football of his career at the head of a midfield three, and is much more subdued in a four. In a 4-4-2, he is too far from goal, unable to influence attacking moves, less likely to combine with Torres (a partnership that works well) and too likely to play wasteful diagonal balls that are easily intercepted. He didn’t have a particularly bad game, but he wasn’t in a position to inspire Liverpool.

This was particularly true tonight. I dont think it's the case for every game, but for games like tonight, when the opposition are strong, i would be looking to play 451 (or 4231) most of the time, especially away from home.

Rafa got slated for being 'negative' but he knew the simple rule of football, that says to win a match, first and foremost, you must not lose it. Stay in the game, even if it means being defensive and keeping it at 0-0, because this is obviously much better than letting the game get away from you.

I dont think Rafa made us a great attacking side, but he sure as hell knows how to make a team difficult to beat. Tonight was the exact opposite - we were easy to beat, and that is unacceptable.

[little dave hedgehog]

Incredible.

not if you watched the game. every ****ing time one of our "skilled" players picked up the ball they tried to run it forward and ran into a brick wall, either immediately losing it (without passing it) or got as far as they did, put their foot on it, looked around, picked no passes, farted, checked their twitter, and then had the ball poked away from them.

dirk did it a few times too.

[Craig_H]

Diabolical that. I'm pretty sure when Roy brought Ngog on the other night to play up with Nando, that was the first time they've played together. I'm sure they've never started together. Essentially two number 9s playing together - what the ****? It was doomed from the outset. Birdman nailed it in the match thread - Lucas ain't a CM in a 2, Kuyt not a midfielder in a 4 and the same goes for Jovanovic.

Add to that Agger at left back and the alien pairing up front, it was a disastrous 4-4-2 and I have no idea how Roy could think it would've worked. I'd love to hear his thinking on it - Mascherano's cuntishness seems to have led to a change of heart - why go from the solid looking 4-2-3-1 that was leaked to a crazy 4-4-2?

Apparently they started together just once before - Reading away in the cup last year, the 1-1 game.

[Shaggy]

Before the lineups confirmed:



After the confirmation of a 4-4-2:



In addition to having posters yell at me about how Jovanovic is a left winger when I said he was far too fond of coming inside and making runs up the middle from deep and not offering much more than Kuyt on the wing, I would like to take this chance to say

I TOLD YOU SO.

It's ****ing obvious to me that we need a left winger and we never, ever need to play a 4-4-2 against a five man midfield ever again. A very good analysis of why this was a massive failure tonight:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/...ely-outplayed/

Me and Ben_Itez went tonight and had the team texted to us in the pub beforehand. We said exactly the same. It just seemed such an obviously dumb thing to do. I really would love to hear Roy's thinking behind it.

[Craig_H]

not if you watched the game. every ****ing time one of our "skilled" players picked up the ball they tried to run it forward and ran into a brick wall, either immediately losing it (without passing it) or got as far as they did, put their foot on it, looked around, picked no passes, farted, checked their twitter, and then had the ball poked away from them.

dirk did it a few times too.

Of course i watched it - and it is indeed incredible that a front pairing complete ONE pass from one to the other in 90 minutes of football. Staggeringly poor, regardless of the reasons.