Et tu Carragher? - Carra the main man behind Rafa leaving?

[Taxi]

You know what, that is exactly what I think if we ever get new (capable) owners.

IF we get new owners, LFC will be entering a new era and we have to accept at this stage in their careers, Gerrard and Carra are not the future, Carra has been struggling for a couple of seasons and Gerrard has probably 2 maybe 3 years max at his current level. We're not going to bridge the gap in 2 seasons, so we may as well make the inevitable decision now whilst we can still get half decent money for him and start building a team that will be here for the next 5 years and more. It has to be done for the future of the club but obviously only if we get new owners with a decent transfer budget.

[Arn]

IF we get new owners, LFC will be entering a new era and we have to accept at this stage in their careers, Gerrard and Carra are not the future, Carra has been struggling for a couple of seasons and Gerrard has probably 2 maybe 3 years max at his current level. We're not going to bridge the gap in 2 seasons, so we may as well make the inevitable decision now whilst we can still get half decent money for him and start building a team that will be here for the next 5 years and more. It has to be done for the future of the club but obviously only if we get new owners with a decent transfer budget.

Gerrard and Carra isn't the future of the club. In many ways a player like Shelvey is more important to keep than Gerrard because he is IMO the future of the club together with a few of our other youngsters.

[bertie]

I wouldnt be astonished is this was true. The players' attitude has been a disgrace the last season or so. Gerrard was infuriating last season. Sad that it has come to the stage where I even find this vaguely credible.

My thoughts exactly. BTW.. I'm the furthest thing from an ITK you can get. I just came across this and thought those on this forum might find it worth some thought.

[Shaggy]

Last month, Jamie Carragher gave an interview in which he talked of the need for Liverpool to get back to traditional values.

"We've had situations like Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce criticising Liverpool and they were right," Carragher said. "We shouldn't be getting involved with stuff like that. Everyone else should look at Liverpool and say they have dignity, class. I mean, like the way people look at Arsenal."

It was unfortunate timing as Arsene Wenger then spent the next month fighting with everyone, including match officials.

"I didn't see his quote but I like Carra as a player and he has to keep focusing on doing things well for Liverpool. Maybe he has an opinion but I don't think Shankly would agree with him. For me the manager of Liverpool Football Club has to defend the club and his players against everyone. The name of the other manager doesn't matter. If you know the story inside you will understand why these managers are talking and I think for our fans it's very clear.

[dww]

Henry Winter also wrote Kenny's book.

We are in a bad enough state as it is without our own fans making up conspiracy theories.

So according to the rumours Gerrard and Carra want Hodgson as manager so they can end their Liverpool careers getting relegated???
That is where we are headed with him in charge.

Do me a ****ing favour, this place has gone mad.

That isn't what anyone is claiming is it? They are saying that they wanted Rafa to leave and possibly were in favour of Roy coming in. No one has made any assumptions about what they think about Roy now they have him as manager.

I suppose you could view the silence from them and their contacts as tacit support. It is possible that they genuinely feel Roy deserves time. Just because we as outsiders see something one way doesn't mean that those close to the situation don't have a different perspective.

[Fredo]

I've said it before, and that is why I am convinced that Rafa lost the dressing room last season.

From that perspective he had to go.

He had a team (or high profile members of) that didn't want to play for him.

If he sold them, he would have looked like a right mug, if he stayed, I'm sure we would have had a similar year to last year.

Horrible situation from where I am sat.

Why would they not want to play for Rafa!? It doesn't seem it has translated into a 'joie de vivre' under Hodgson isn't it, so are they rocking the boat again? Makes no sense.

I just think that things have been leaked out by one of the directors (Purslow) on purpose to undermine the former manager. It was so bad that the situation was destabilising the playing staff.

In short, our leaders on the pitch aren't mentally strong enough and can't cope with it. It got worse this season because the manager's got even less of an input as he's totally clueless - he's even criticised his own players in public.

[bertie]

Oh ffs to this thread. This discussion should have been had over the summer. What's the point in it now?
Especially now.

Cos it might, just might, explain why we're in such a state. As for someone else suggesting that it was JC & SG's hope to get relegated by bringing in Hodgson. Are off your mind? IF this is true, then they believed they knew better than Rafa. That Hodgson would cosy up to them & that they would be guaranteed - a new contract (Carra) and to be played in their "best" position (Gerrard - tho why every manager worth his salt says he can't actually play there seems to be beyond our great captain).

They also obviously must've thought it would improve the team. I know there are a few here moaning about conspiracy theories etc but you msut be completely deluded NOT to belive that this kind of thing happens in football. Look at Chelsea ffs?! Jose realsies that JT is becoming a bit too big for his boots and a liability on the field. JT then goes & organises a posse who are not exactly fond of Jose but were toleratinmg him due to his success. JT convinces them that they'll be happier under a new manager who plays "expansive" football & allows the players to "express" themselves. What happens? - the players with the ear of the boss get the manager booted out. They then get Scolari. What happens? Disaster. He's booted out.

What about Raul et al at Real Madrid? Any co-incidence that his reign ended when Jose arrived?!!?

I've no actual facts to prove that the story is true. But I have my instinct and my common sense. And using these I belive that whilst it might not be word for word true, that there is certainly something very substantial in it.

Please lets not fall into the trap of believing that because we are Liverpool Football Club that "we are different & this wouldn't happen here". If the events of the past 12 months have thought us anything, if being in the ****ing relegation zone in October has taught us anything, it's that we are no longer different & this type of thing COULD happen at our club.

Opinions vary & thats fair enough. I only hope this whole ****ing nightmare ends soon.

[dww]

Last month, Jamie Carragher gave an interview in which he talked of the need for Liverpool to get back to traditional values.

"We've had situations like Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce criticising Liverpool and they were right," Carragher said. "We shouldn't be getting involved with stuff like that. Everyone else should look at Liverpool and say they have dignity, class. I mean, like the way people look at Arsenal."

It was unfortunate timing as Arsene Wenger then spent the next month fighting with everyone, including match officials.

"I didn't see his quote but I like Carra as a player and he has to keep focusing on doing things well for Liverpool. Maybe he has an opinion but I don't think Shankly would agree with him. For me the manager of Liverpool Football Club has to defend the club and his players against everyone. The name of the other manager doesn't matter. If you know the story inside you will understand why these managers are talking and I think for our fans it's very clear.

Good quote from Wenger. I have to say I side with him and Rafa on this one. I thought when I read the Carragher interview (I assume it was in the Guardian) that it sounded like a needless swipe at Rafa.

[dom9]

Why would they not want to play for Rafa!? It doesn't seem it has translated into a 'joie de vivre' under Hodgson isn't it, so are they rocking the boat again? Makes no sense.

I just think that things have been leaked out by one of the directors (Purslow) on purpose to undermine the former manager. It was so bad that the situation was destabilising the playing staff.

In short, our leaders on the pitch aren't mentally strong enough and can't cope with it. It got worse this season because the manager's got even less of an input as he's totally clueless - he's even criticised his own players in public.

Because they are petulant ****s.

[Shaggy]

Good quote from Wenger. I have to say I side with him and Rafa on this one. I thought when I read the Carragher interview (I assume it was in the Guardian) that it sounded like a needless swipe at Rafa.

That's Rafa's quote, not Wenger's. From the Dion Fanning interview at the weekend.

[dww]

There was talk about unrest at Valencia when Rafa left. The thing is that the several players who were the most vocal critics when he went came out a few months later stating that it was better when he was there. It also has echoes of the reported situation the season between Rafa's first and second la Liga titles when he was supposed to have 'lost the dressing room'. I think it is unfair to single out Gerrard and Carragher for finding life hard under Rafa. It is however reasonable IMO to criticise those who listened to their whining and let go of a world class manager of top teams for a decent journeyman manager of mid rankers.

[dww]

That's Rafa's quote, not Wenger's. From the Dion Fanning interview at the weekend.

Fair enough. I suspect he would agree with me too though

[Neil Young]

There was talk about unrest at Valencia when Rafa left. The thing is that the several players who were the most vocal critics when he went came out a few months later stating that it was better when he was there. It also has echoes of the reported situation the season between Rafa's first and second la Liga titles when he was supposed to have 'lost the dressing room'. I think it is unfair to single out Gerrard and Carragher for finding life hard under Rafa. It is however reasonable IMO to criticise those who listened to their whining and let go of a world class manager of top teams for a decent journeyman manager of mid rankers.

[Arn]

A three year deal instead of maybe a one year is a very good reason to get rid of the manager.

Carra already showed a few times that he thinks about himself first and the club second, like when he refused to play right back and Skrtel ended up playing there.

Gerrard showed last season once and for all that he thinks about himself first when he sulked almost the whole season.

It's very weird to hear that players like them would never let the club down because they already done that.

Someone should have kicked Gerrard's ass last season more than one time the way he acted on the pitch. That was totally unacceptable. He acted like a big ego the whole season. He showed that he didn't care about the club as much as he want us to believe.

He is one of our best ever players but he will never reach the legendary status of Kenny because of his **** attitude.

[Taxi]

There was talk about unrest at Valencia when Rafa left. The thing is that the several players who were the most vocal critics when he went came out a few months later stating that it was better when he was there. It also has echoes of the reported situation the season between Rafa's first and second la Liga titles when he was supposed to have 'lost the dressing room'. I think it is unfair to single out Gerrard and Carragher for finding life hard under Rafa. It is however reasonable IMO to criticise those who listened to their whining and let go of a world class manager of top teams for a decent journeyman manager of mid rankers.

I think what has become apparent now is that Rafa is able to make a side of average players perform way above their ability and compete at the top level. What has also become apparent is that when he did this year after year people forget that these were average players (including the players themselves) and when they inevitably had a poor season, they turned on the wrong man.

Edit. This is not to absolve Rafa of all blame for that season, as some of the decisions he made in the transfer market just didn't come off, but these things do happen now and again, but ultimately, he is one of the very the best out there and our board forced him out.