Pack your bags Roy

[gerbin11]

Craig the hypocrasy is that you spent months saying Rafa wasn't good enough and that you wanted him out. You even as I quoted earlier, asked for him to be 'sacked now' in March. BEFORE the ownership was sorted.

When he is sacked you spent a whole thread jumping to his defence saying he was hard done to because of the way he was sacked.

You then spend so much time jumping from one side of the fence to the other that I think you real name is Capt Mark Phillips. Now when its laid in front of you, your answer is that it is my fault i misunderstood your precise and clear posts.

[Craig_H]

I dont know why it has to be about me. I certainly dont seek this kind of 'notoriety' or whatever you'd wish to call it....

nice try? again aggressive when there is no need.

also if thats as close as you ever have come to admitting your wrong i wonder why your so defensive?

Aggressive? I posted a friendly handshake to go with it

I just dont get the severe level of scrutiny that you seem keen to put me under - as if you're my boss or i have to justify myself/my opinons, or something. Or as if it's some kind of mission of yours to 'prove me wrong' - like i've ever implied that i cant be wrong about anything Of course i get things wrong, just like anyone can. I wouldnt seek to say otherwise.

I dont mean to be defensive, but i also wonder why your posts seem to convey a significant need to try and 'attack' me or 'catch me out'. Seems odd.

In conclusion, what do you actually want me to say? What are you seeking mate?

Do you want me to admit that i get things wrong? Well yeah, of course i do.

What more would like me to clarify? I'll do my best.

Craig the hypocrasy is that you spent months saying Rafa wasn't good enough and that you wanted him out. You even as I quoted earlier, asked for him to be 'sacked now' in March. BEFORE the ownership was sorted.

When he is sacked you spent a whole thread jumping to his defence saying he was hard done to because of the way he was sacked.

You then spend so much time jumping from one side of the fence to the other that I think you real name is Capt Mark Phillips. Now when its laid in front of you, your answer is that it is my fault i misunderstood your precise and clear posts.

Where did i mention fault?

You asked me on what basis did i think we should have sacked rafa - and i've told you. Whether you choose to believe me or not, i cannot control.

I honestly do not know what you're after mate.

[Rowan]

WTF **** are you on about, 'punished harshly' What planet are you living on?

And pardon me for asking, but how do you know what people were thinking, with regards to the circumstances under which they thought rafa should leave?

Or are you seriously trying to say that people who felt rafa should go, were thinking "Yes, he should be sacked even if the replacement is a useless doddering tit with no levels of expectation, who will have us playing even ****ter and doing even worse" ? Laughable.

Given that the bulk of my posts on this forum have been outside the (at times) zoo like arena of the footy discussion threads I should probably have thought that there are a number of posters on here who (a) probably don't know me well enough to spot the childish flippancy in my musings or (b) notice but choose to point it out as they really just don't like that sort of thing or find it as amusing as I do. I'd say the same thing about yourself. For example, Craig, having read a lot of your own thoughts I like to think that you just have a degree of confidence in your own thoughts. Others may think you're at times hostile, confrontational or downright dismissive. The dangers of the written word over the spoken word eh? I know you're probably a really decent chap who loves watching documentaries about bunny rabbits and rainbows but the subjective nature of footy discussion, especially for serial posters, sometimes masks the good nature in people. Thats 'what planet' i'm '****ing on'!

What I referred to was the numerous occasions, notably in post match threads last year, where people's hostility towards Rafa, his tactics, his style of play etc led to fairly vitriolic posts about whether he should still be here. How many polls were there during the season (not the summer, the season) that suggested we should sack him on the spot? How many voted yes. Saying 'well, not if we would get Roy in' after the event doesn't cut any mustard with me. The fact is people felt, mid-season we should get shot. Feeling sorry for ourselves now doesn't change that and offering hindsight excuses doesn't either. Some of us voiced our opinions, they came to fruition and now people need to accept that the grass isn't always greener but **** off all this justification bollocks and man the **** up. You say something you stand by it. At least the likes of Foggy and Harv have the bottle to accept their views on Rafa at the time shouldn't be put down to fantasy because Roy is a useless clementine.

I'll resist the urge to stick a handshake at the end. You'll just have to guess whether or not it's implied.

[Arn]

The fact that we were doing so poorly, coupled with the belief that new owners were coming in soon (and therefore a serious prospect of a quality replacement manager) were the main factors.

I love the desire you have to try and 'get one over on me' or 'prove me wrong' - you're just itching to do it and it's amusing.

If you wanted Rafa sacked after his first bad season then it is just crazy. You don't sack the manager after his first bad season out of six.

If you also add Rafa's record at Valencia when he had a bad season and won the league the year after only proves how **** the decision was to sack him when the evidence is there that Rafa correct his mistakes and make the team MUCH stronger after a setback season.

I will always blame Gerrard much more than Rafa for us missing out on a CL place. No one of them is blameless but to act the way Gerrard did last season was much worse than a few strange subs and play Masch and Lucas together.

Last seasons bad results was a combination of injuries, **** attitude from Gerrard, some strange decisions by Rafa and G&H.

You can't only say that it is Rafa's fault. It is a combination of all of them.

[Craig_H]

Given that the bulk of my posts on this forum have been outside the (at times) zoo like arena of the footy discussion threads I should probably have thought that there are a number of posters on here who (a) probably don't know me well enough to spot the childish flippancy in my musings or (b) notice but choose to point it out as they really just don't like that sort of thing or find it as amusing as I do. I'd say the same thing about yourself. For example, Craig, having read a lot of your own thoughts I like to think that you just have a degree of confidence in your own thoughts. Others may think you're at times hostile, confrontational or downright dismissive. The dangers of the written word over the spoken word eh? I know you're probably a really decent chap who loves watching documentaries about bunny rabbits and rainbows but the subjective nature of footy discussion, especially for serial posters, sometimes masks the good nature in people. Thats 'what planet' i'm '****ing on'!

What I referred to was the numerous occasions, notably in post match threads last year, where people's hostility towards Rafa, his tactics, his style of play etc led to fairly vitriolic posts about whether he should still be here. How many polls were there during the season (not the summer, the season) that suggested we should sack him on the spot? How many voted yes. Saying 'well, not if we would get Roy in' after the event doesn't cut any mustard with me. The fact is people felt, mid-season we should get shot. Feeling sorry for ourselves now doesn't change that and offering hindsight excuses doesn't either. Some of us voiced our opinions, they came to fruition and now people need to accept that the grass isn't always greener but **** off all this justification bollocks and man the **** up. You say something you stand by it. At least the likes of Foggy and Harv have the bottle to accept their views on Rafa at the time shouldn't be put down to fantasy because Roy is a useless clementine.

I'll resist the urge to stick a handshake at the end. You'll just have to guess whether or not it's implied.

In fairness mate, i think that post-match threads arent a time when people will be at their most thoughtful. Emotions running high and careful thought goes out of the window.

As for my feelings at the time, as i've already alluded to, i cannot PROVE what basis i was thinking upon and as a consequence of that, there's not much i can do. If people dont believe me, they dont believe me. Fair enough to them.

I find the notion of 'punishment' odd, that's all.

Any feelings that rafa should have gone, whether they were based on the likelihood of new owners or otherwise, would've been expressed as genuine belief of what would've been better for the club - rather than any malicious or deliberate attempt to have a go or be nasty. And as such, i'm not sure that the 'crime' of misjudgement of a situation, is one that requires 'punishment' as such. I appreciate that you may have used that term in a jovial manner, but in the event that anyone seriously holds that view, then i'd disagree with it on the basis that i have outlined here.

If you wanted Rafa sacked after his first bad season then it is just crazy. You don't sack the manager after his first bad season out of six.

If you also add Rafa's record at Valencia when he had a bad season and won the league the year after only proves how **** the decision was to sack him when the evidence is there that Rafa correct his mistakes and make the team MUCH stronger after a setback season.

I will always blame Gerrard much more than Rafa for us missing out on a CL place. No one of them is blameless but to act the way Gerrard did last season was much worse than a few strange subs and play Masch and Lucas together.

Last seasons bad results was a combination of injuries, **** attitude from Gerrard, some strange decisions by Rafa and G&H.

You can't only say that it is Rafa's fault. It is a combination of all of them.

And i dont.

Just for your own piece of mind too Arn, i have also been saying that i would like Rafa back. I obviously cant think THAT badly of him, can i?


I'm gonna leave it there lads, because whilst all i am doing is treating each direct reply to me with the decency of a genuine reply, i know what will happen and that i'll probably get told off for posting too many replies - so on those grounds, i'll leave it at that for tonight at least.

[CJ]

Aggressive? I posted a friendly handshake to go with it

I just dont get the severe level of scrutiny that you seem keen to put me under - as if you're my boss or i have to justify myself/my opinons, or something. Or as if it's some kind of mission of yours to 'prove me wrong' - like i've ever implied that i cant be wrong about anything Of course i get things wrong, just like anyone can. I wouldnt seek to say otherwise.

I dont mean to be defensive, but i also wonder why your posts seem to convey a significant need to try and 'attack' me or 'catch me out'. Seems odd.

In conclusion, what do you actually want me to say? What are you seeking mate?

Do you want me to admit that i get things wrong? Well yeah, of course i do.

What more would like me to clarify? I'll do my best.

well by the sounds of it i misunderstood your tone. i thought it was aggressive but i admit that was down in no small part to my view of you (i tend to think your posts are aggressive). So sorry for that its as much down to my prejudice for want of a better expression.

I dont want to attack you but if i have a wider aim its to try to get you to step back and take a breath. In my view, and it is only my view is that when you get started somehow your expressions seem to shut down debate. I would imagine (i may be wrong though) that its your passion and general love for the club that leads to this posting style. For me it does make me from time to time avoid the football forums, it was at its worst during the should rafa stay or go debates.

Now to the more specific question, i wouldnt mind if you had changed your opinion but it was the fact that people disagreeing with you at the time were talking **** and bollocks etc. Now that it seems to me and more than one other that you have had a complete reverse of opinion it still quite aggressive. if it wasnt an aggressive stance when you wanted rafa to go then maybe it wouldnt have stuck in my mind.

Maybe if you toned down the tone (should have thought that through better) then maybe people wouldnt care if your views appeared to change.

now it is possible that everything i have posted is crap and its skewed by my perception however they may be something to think about.

hope that doesnt come across as aggressive as my posts can be.

[gerbin11]

Craig, the point I am trying to make, and I apologise if this has become lost, is that in March this year I said that it was folly to get rid of a manager before the ownership was sorted. The reason I gave was that I believed in the state we were in, as a club, we would not be able to attract a manager of the calibre we desired. I think my concerns were realised. What annoyed me at the time was that I was dismissed without hesitation and was told, by you, that I was talking ****. I come onto the forum again, 7 months later and you haven't learned you are saying a similar thing to another poster, who is trying to say something similar to what I said.

[Darkon]

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/show...10&postcount=1

[Arn]

Craig reminds me about me two three years ago. Aggressive style posting that simply is so weird that it is very difficult to understand him.

A good advice from someone that been in that situation. Calm down, take a week or two off and think about what you say and what you said.

I made some massive massive blunders and looked like an idiot.

Don't make the same mistake as me. Admit that you made mistakes and move on. I made many mistakes and looked a complete an utter idiot. Don't defend your points no matter what.

Having a wife and a six month old baby of course helps.

Just calm down

Reading some old threads by me isn't exactly fun. I really did acted like an idiot. You don't want to read old threads by you in a couple of years and realize that you acted like an idiot.

[Craig_H]

Arn - i AM calm mate I'm not 'angry' or anything like that, so please dont interpret my posts to mean that i am - and they're not intended to be aggressive, so hands up from me on that one.

Craig, the point I am trying to make, and I apologise if this has become lost, is that in March this year I said that it was folly to get rid of a manager before the ownership was sorted. The reason I gave was that I believed in the state we were in, as a club, we would not be able to attract a manager of the calibre we desired. I think my concerns were realised. What annoyed me at the time was that I was dismissed without hesitation and was told, by you, that I was talking ****. I come onto the forum again, 7 months later and you haven't learned you are saying a similar thing to another poster, who is trying to say something similar to what I said.

As i said mate, i DID think we should replace the manager but based on the notion that we would have sorted the ownership issue, which i firmly believed we would do. If i said that you were 'talking ****' then i apologise. I dont recall it but by the same token, i am not doubting your word. So sincere apologies.

And that genuinely is the last word from me on this topic, for this night at the very least. I didnt want to be seen to be dodging or ignoring your post above, but i genuinely prefer not to continue posting on this thread at this moment, for the reasons stated previously.

[gerbin11]

The last thing I want is for you to stop posting in any particular thread, I enjoy your posts, the passion you and others show is what makes this forum my choice, admittedly to lurk in most of the time. Your only failing appears to be your inability to admit any errors, even if they are said in the heat of the moment.

I will not mention it again...............well at least until you annoy me that much again anyhow.

[Shaggy]

Anyone got their Christmas edition LFC merchandise catalogue in the post?

On page 1 there's a lovely picture of Roy in a stripy shirt and blazer, with his normally unruly hair immaculately swept back. There's also a message from Roy.

Welcome to Liverpool Football Club's Christmas catalogue.

This edition is full of fantastic gift ideas for the upcoming festive period. Why not try one of the Christian Poulsen baubles for your Christmas tree?

It has been a challenging start to the season for everyone connected with the Club but what I ask of you, the fans, is this - patience, trust and belief, because we will get it right.

I wish you all, and your families, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I certainly hope we can brighten your festive holidays by picking up a point here or there.

Roy.

[Rich]

Anyone got their Christmas edition LFC merchandise catalogue in the post?

On page 1 there's a lovely picture of Roy in a stripy shirt and blazer, with his normally unruly hair immaculately swept back. There's also a message from Roy.

I'm refusing to believe you!

[Shaggy]

I'm refusing to believe you!

I have it in my hands - I can take a picture if you like? (Don't have a scanner)

Although obviously I've added a couple of little bits.

[banditos]

Why is this thread full of semantic bull**** rather than internet rumours that may or may not suggest that Roy is going to get the scak very soon? Back on topic please mofos.