Pack your bags Roy

[calvoboy]

I think we'll have to disagree on some points as your mind seems made up.

Not at all, that's why I like arguing the point - it helps to make my mind up when I'm in two or three minds over what's happening at the moment, and how badly we are doing compared to what might reasonably be expected. The only thing that I've totally made my mind up on is that the level of criticism and personal abuse that Roy is getting on this and all the other forums is unwarranted.

-----------

But tbh you hit the nail on the head before in a previous post and I'll agree on that point. Under Ged and Rafa we were sold a vision of the future and we knew what direction we were going. Both came on the back of immense success (Houllier laying foundations for the French to win World Cup and later Euros, Rafa winning La Liga twice in three years as well as UEFA Cup).

Both had a solid history and were on an upward curve. Roy just does not inspire the fans. And I'm sorry to say, if the fans aren't inspired, it's not often that the players are.

Agree totally

[Craig_H]

No - they were Roy's signings and he chose to bring them here, thinking they were the best for the club given the money available. There's a big difference.

Replacing Mascher, the best defensive CM in the world, with anyone would have weakened the side. As would having to sell a load of squad players to desperately cut the wage bill, as Bascombe, Evans and other journalists said was going to happen in the summer long before Roy was appointed.

It's his fault that the players he's signed haven't been much cop, but not his fault that the overall quality of the squad has declined, any more than it was Rafa's when he had to make a profit for his last 3-4 transfer windows.

To be honest, we didnt need to sign Konchesky, and he hasnt strengthened the squad. We paid £4.5m to weaken our LB position by buying PDK and letting Insua go. Utter idiocy.

Likewise, Poulsen wasnt needed. Lucas can do a DM job and as Hodgson plays 442, we dont need as many DMs.

£10m we paid for that pair, and we could've had VdV for the same money.

Hodgson ****ed up his signings and it's his fault.

[calvoboy]

Calvo, what do you think would prove a good season for Roy?

Given City's spending and Spurs's development, 5th/6th having challenged for 4th to the last couple of games would be acceptable in my eyes, 4th would be a fantastic achievement, anything higher would be dreamland.

Performances would need to improve though, consistently, so that there's a sign that we are getting better and can challenge in future. There's no real sign of that at the moment.

[calvoboy]

To be honest, we didnt need to sign Konchesky, and he hasnt strengthened the squad. We paid £4.5m to weaken our LB position by buying PDK and letting Insua go. Utter idiocy.

Likewise, Poulsen wasnt needed. Lucas can do a DM job and as Hodgson plays 442, we dont need as many DMs.

£10m we paid for that pair, and we could've had VdV for the same money.

Hodgson ****ed up his signings and it's his fault.

Overall, ignoring individual mistakes, if you're making a profit from one window to the next then the quality of the squad is going to decline.

He takes responsibility for his signings, definitely. I just don't think you can blame him for having to replace top class players with mid-table players, as he didn't have the money to replace like with like. The fact Konchesky and Poulsen have been ****e apart from yesterday is certainly his fault. But then you can always point to what else you could have done with money spent on failures. What could we have done with the £37m spent on Keane and Johnson. What could we have done with the money spent on Diouf, Diao, and Cheyrou that memorable summer. What could the mancs have done with the money spend on Djemba Djemba, Veron etc.

[little dave hedgehog]

don't think we can really lay jovanovic at his feet either, nor praise him for wilson or shelvey. none of those had **** to do with him. also the writing was on the wall for insua, they were flogging him before roy was even at the club.

[Lecter]

No - they were Roy's signings and he chose to bring them here, thinking they were the best for the club given the money available. There's a big difference.

Replacing Mascher, the best defensive CM in the world, with anyone would have weakened the side. As would having to sell a load of squad players to desperately cut the wage bill, as Bascombe, Evans and other journalists said was going to happen in the summer long before Roy was appointed.

It's his fault that the players he's signed haven't been much cop, but not his fault that the overall quality of the squad has declined, any more than it was Rafa's when he had to make a profit for his last 3-4 transfer windows.

Hmmm I'm not sure I believe that

Even when you look at the amount Roy has spent on PFK, Poulsen & Jones a lot of people have been critical of those signings

In terms on outlay we should NEVER in a million years have been pushing out Insua to replace him with PFK at a cost of £5 million WTF

[Lecter]

To be honest, we didnt need to sign Konchesky, and he hasnt strengthened the squad. We paid £4.5m to weaken our LB position by buying PDK and letting Insua go. Utter idiocy.

Likewise, Poulsen wasnt needed. Lucas can do a DM job and as Hodgson plays 442, we dont need as many DMs.

£10m we paid for that pair, and we could've had VdV for the same money.

Hodgson ****ed up his signings and it's his fault.

Just like the club ****ed up when they canned Rafa and replaced him with Roy at a cost of over £7 million - flmao

[Lecter]

The only thing that I've totally made my mind up on is that the level of criticism Roy is getting on this and all the other forums is unwarranted.

I dont think the criticism is unwarranted at all

Worst start in the league for 50 years
Knocked out of the League Cup at home by a team at the bottom of League 2 (or in old money near bottom of 4th division)
Totally outplayed at home by Blackpool
Totally outplayed away at Everton without putting up a fight
Out played at Wigan and Stoke
General poor away form
General poor form fullstop
Poor signings
Bizarre press conferences criticising fans, players, previous managers etc.....
Bizarre press conferences saying we played well, were unlucky etc.. when it certainly was not the case

I'm not keen on the personal abuse but to say the criticism is unwarranted, it makes you sound like one of the journos who cried out for his appointment and are trying to justify your position

Thats before you review his tactics which are negative at best and downright surrender if you are being harsh

Has Hodgson ever managed in Belgium? Because he certainly developed their habit of hoisting the white flag and surrendering

[Exiled_red]

Given City's spending and Spurs's development, 5th/6th having challenged for 4th to the last couple of games would be acceptable in my eyes, 4th would be a fantastic achievement, anything higher would be dreamland.

Performances would need to improve though, consistently, so that there's a sign that we are getting better and can challenge in future. There's no real sign of that at the moment.

Just playing devil's advocate for a minute, isn't that all basically what happened last season (ok we finished 7th but) we were in contention for 4th up until about 2 or 3 games to go but ultimately didn't make it, yes City have spent again, but they were doing the same last year, and Spurs were developing last year too. Ultimately more or less the same situation that wasn't good enough for Rafa last year is what Roy's aiming for?

[calvoboy]

I dont think the criticism is unwarranted at all

Worst start in the league for 50 years
Knocked out of the League Cup at home by a team at the bottom of League 2 (or in old money near bottom of 4th division)
Totally outplayed at home by Blackpool
Totally outplayed away at Everton without putting up a fight
Out played at Wigan and Stoke
General poor away form
General poor form fullstop
Poor signings
Bizarre press conferences criticising fans, players, previous managers etc.....
Bizarre press conferences saying we played well, were unlucky etc.. when it certainly was not the case

I'm not keen on the personal abuse but to say the criticism is unwarranted, it makes you sound like one of the journos who cried out for his appointment and are trying to justify your position

Thats before you review his tactics which are negative at best and downright surrender if you are being harsh

Has Hodgson ever managed in Belgium? Because he certainly developed their habit of hoisting the white flag and surrendering

The criticism is warranted. The level and tone of it is not.

All the things you list above happened under previous managers, but I don't recall there being quite the same overwhelming level of criticism and personal abuse on here. There were always people making the case for the defence.

I'm just tired of reading the same anti-Roy ****e on here regardless of what we do, so that even a comfortable 3-0 win without Gerrard and Lucas is slated. It's boring reading everyone endlessly aggressively agreeing with each other about how crap he is. I think there is an alternative case to be made, and seeing as no-one else is making it I'll have a go.

Ironic that as someone who didn't want Rafa sacked, didn't want Roy appointed, and still isn't convinced by him, pointing out an alternative interpretation of our performance so far arguably makes me Roy's biggest fan on here.

[red g]

apart from Spurs away the fixture gods have been very kind to him till after christmas.

but i reckon we will flip between 7th and 14th we will be one of those sad clubs that has nothing to play for.

[red g]

The criticism is warranted. The level and tone of it is not.

All the things you list above happened under previous managers, but I don't recall there being quite the same overwhelming level of criticism and personal abuse on here. There were always people making the case for the defence.

I'm just tired of reading the same anti-Roy ****e on here regardless of what we do, so that even a comfortable 3-0 win without Gerrard and Lucas is slated. It's boring reading everyone endlessly aggressively agreeing with each other about how crap he is. I think there is an alternative case to be made, and seeing as no-one else is making it I'll have a go.

Ironic that as someone who didn't want Rafa sacked, didn't want Roy appointed, and still isn't convinced by him, pointing out an alternative interpretation of our performance so far arguably makes me Roy's biggest fan on here.

some of what Lec posted can be said about some other managers........but roy is leagues ahead of others.......Rafa had Burnley, Houiller had a few, but Roy had Northampton FFS!!! in a different league!

same can be said of 90% of those points, Roy has made us look dull, ordinary and its painful to watch.

Turgid **** and its killing me, I think some of the insults are a bit ott, after all you wouldnt talk to your grandpa like that.

[calvoboy]

Just playing devil's advocate for a minute, isn't that all basically what happened last season (ok we finished 7th but) we were in contention for 4th up until about 2 or 3 games to go but ultimately didn't make it, yes City have spent again, but they were doing the same last year, and Spurs were developing last year too. Ultimately more or less the same situation that wasn't good enough for Rafa last year is what Roy's aiming for?

Yes - but then I wouldn't have sacked Rafa, and would have given him another season.

I do think it's unrealistic to expect a new manager taking over a side with all the off-field crap that we had to deal with, and having to sell a top player and cut the squad, to do a great deal better than Rafa did last season given that the other sides have improved their squads and we haven't. If we finish 5th or 6th having challenged for fourth all season, then he'll have improved on last year and that's a good enough start for me.

[barnes10]

The criticism is warranted. The level and tone of it is not.

All the things you list above happened under previous managers, but I don't recall there being quite the same overwhelming level of criticism and personal abuse on here. There were always people making the case for the defence.

I'm just tired of reading the same anti-Roy ****e on here regardless of what we do, so that even a comfortable 3-0 win without Gerrard and Lucas is slated. It's boring reading everyone endlessly aggressively agreeing with each other about how crap he is. I think there is an alternative case to be made, and seeing as no-one else is making it I'll have a go.

Ironic that as someone who didn't want Rafa sacked, didn't want Roy appointed, and still isn't convinced by him, pointing out an alternative interpretation of our performance so far arguably makes me Roy's biggest fan on here.

What's happening under roy is markedly worse and more disappointing than other managers tho right? Worst start for 50 years didnt happen under other managers for, ahem, 50 years did it?

I do agree with what im interpreting as your real point - the second bit in bold. it is boring. we know he's ****.we're basically just waiting and seeing if he can do anything before he's shown the door. there's not much we can or should do at this point. it is tasteless and boring tho to keep saying stuff about his jowels and drawing his pension. that puts me off football almost as much as what he's doing with my club.
my only faith is that NESV / FSG see this and wheels are in motion to put the right setup in place.

[Fredo]

It's really painful watching us at the moment. It's like watching someone you love slowly dying and you can't help.