Pacheco

[the rev leeroy brown]

the worry over pacheco is that neither rafa nor hodgson seem prepared to give him extended game time. age is no barrier - if your good enough your old enough as they say. either he shows in training / reserve games that he is not quite the talent he is said to be or his attitude isnt right. something must be wrong that 2 established managers dont seem to trust him in the 1st team.

[dww]

the worry over pacheco is that neither rafa nor hodgson seem prepared to give him extended game time. age is no barrier - if your good enough your old enough as they say. either he shows in training / reserve games that he is not quite the talent he is said to be or his attitude isnt right. something must be wrong that 2 established managers dont seem to trust him in the 1st team.

Or perhaps some players are best eased into the team. He is clearly not a complete package and in the last year or so when he has seemed to be ready for a chance the team has not been in an ideal state to give young players their breakthrough.

[Arn]

I'm not sure that there is any convincing evidence for this all players who start young and play a lot get broken any more than there is for other players. For every Michael Owen there is a Ryan Giggs. You may be right but I don't think it is clear cut.

Giggs have had massive injury problems in his career.

[Fredo]

I'm not sure that there is any convincing evidence for this all players who start young and play a lot get broken any more than there is for other players. For every Michael Owen there is a Ryan Giggs. You may be right but I don't think it is clear cut.

I think you'll see strong evidence that players who've played a lot early on have struggled with their careers late on, injury wise. Players such as Scholes & Beckham, were eased into it by Ferguson (I think they become regulars at around 21), unlike the Giggs' & Owen's of this world. Still, there's probably a lot more examples of which I can't think of at the moment, which might emphasise your point.

[Rich]

I'm not sure that there is any convincing evidence for this all players who start young and play a lot get broken any more than there is for other players. For every Michael Owen there is a Ryan Giggs. You may be right but I don't think it is clear cut.

I'm sure you could have found a better example than Ryan "Hamstrings" Giggs? Surely?

[dww]

I think you'll see strong evidence that players who've played a lot early on have struggled with their careers late on, injury wise. Players such as Scholes & Beckham, were eased into it by Ferguson (I think they become regulars at around 21), unlike the Giggs' & Owen's of this world. Still, there's probably a lot more examples of which I can't think of at the moment, which might emphasise your point.

Not really he played 51 games in his first full season there was no great 'easing in' where playing time comes into it.

Mostly aimed at arn:
While I accept that Giggs has had some injuries over his career I'm unconvinced he has been particularly injury prone. The number of games he has played over his career season on season is always good. Compare him to anyone who has had a long career and I think you will find he has played more games than most (I just checked Paulo Maldini for instance).

[dww]

I'm sure you could have found a better example than Ryan "Hamstrings" Giggs? Surely?

Check out the actual number of games he has played though; since his breakthrough in 1991–92 he has never played less than 30 in a season. With that workload some injuries are bound to happen but he is still playing at the highest level.

[Fredo]

Yep, true Dave.

[RichC]

Giggs has played around 850 games for United - playing in his 21st season that works out about 40 games a season on average - whilst he's had his injury issues as most players have, he's certainly not the crock and still playing top level football!

[Arn]

Check out the actual number of games he has played though; since his breakthrough in 1991–92 he has never played less than 30 in a season. With that workload some injuries are bound to happen but he is still playing at the highest level.

and why do you think he is still able to play at the highest level? I think that if someone asked him then he would answer that it would be because of his injuries.

The one two month rest he got almost every season because of injuries means that his body isn't as tired as it would be if he had played in every game.

Fabregas may very well be able to have a longer career just because of the injury problems he is having now.

I think most managers would love to have the option to send the players out on a month holiday from time to time even if they are not injured in the middle of the season. Just to be able to rest them.

[Fernandinho]

Backflip from Arn?

[Arn]

Backflip from Arn?

To be able to do that you of course need to be a brilliant reader of the game because you won't have the pace to cope.

Many injuries take the pace out of players.

[cannotmakeit]

We don't need to sell. So why sell a prospect? Sell Babel, sell Spearing if we need money and to cut the wage bill.

[dww]

So to summarise Arn, your criticism of Wenger is that he hasn't got Fabregas injured in the right ways at the right times.

Is there a way of playing a youngster that ensures that they do get the right injuries?

[Arn]

So to summarise Arn, your criticism of Wenger is that he hasn't got Fabregas injured in the right ways at the right times.

Is there a way of playing a youngster that ensures that they do get the right injuries?

No, there isn't a guaranteed road to get it right.

The best would of course be if the best talents didn't start to play week in week out until they are 20, 21 years old or something like that but what would we fans think about a manager that don't play a player like Fabregas week in week out until then? What would the club say? What would the player himself say? What would his agents say?

To be able to hold on to the player then in some cases the manager must simply play the player even if he really would like to wait.