The Race for the Top 4 2017

[Norbs]

It's well within our capabilities

[PTP]

Imagine if we **** it up now.

you knob why oh why say that

[Phoenix07]

Imagine if we **** it up now.

A Mignolet howler to gift Middlesbrough a 1-0 win.

[McDermotX]

Imagine if we **** it up now.

There's no point thinking like that now.

The time for that thinking is, oooh, say around the 56th min of the game and it's still 0-0 with is chalking up our 400th pass and Klopp sitting on his hands on the bench.

[BigChief]

Imagine if we **** it up now.

We're all thinking it. But the way Coutinho has finally decided to treat every game as a 'big' game and Sturridge coming back to life (not to mention Matip being a recent mainstay in our backline) then the signs are we are going to score. This is our cup final (and no don't mention Klopp's cup finals record).

Lallana has played very well albeit unnoticed. He was quietly involved in at least two chances where drifted into the six yard box resulting in confusion and goals. Not to mention his clever runs for Coutinho and off Sturridge.

Lallana, Sturridge, Matip and re-in-form Coutinho is what we've been missing for months. Mane can put his feet up. Hopefully the Arsenal players can sense that too and will capitulate against Sunderland who seem to be playing better after relegation than before.

[Buzzo]

If we can put the same side as we put out yesterday apart from bringing in Firmino for Del I think that's pretty much as strong a side as we can put out at the moment.

Having Phil playing in the deeper position seems to offer that range of passing we've been missing with the park the bus weaker sides (Mancs etc...) it also really helped us having a player like Sturridge looking to play off the shoulder of the last man.

100%.

The main reason we've fallen of the pace after Xmas is injuries. When you consider the options we'd have had Henderson, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane, Sturridge been fit all season we'd be in a better place.

And, we've only lost six games all season! We've drawn a few too many and lost a couple of shockers. That's not far off.

[Mark79]

I don't think qualifiers would make too much difference tbh. If we can't get through them we certainly have bigger issues than having to go through qualifying. But if they have reservations it's usually over before the window shuts isn't it?

That being said I don't think it will make us a prime destination overnight anyway.

We need to show our faces in the comp and make it back again next year. Show we're back in Europe and not just having a blip.

Late August, I think. But If CL is that much of a decider then I can't imagine many players hanging on that late in the window to see if we qualify proper, not if they've other offers on the table.

But yeah we do need to re-establish ourselves as a regular CL club before it becomes a real benefit in the transfer market.

I'm just thinking in terms of players like VVD who've reportedly said they'd be open to Liverpool on the condition of CL. Will a play-off place be enough to cut it when he's sure to have offers from teams who can guarantee the group stages at least?

[McDermotX]

I think we will batter Boro next weekend.

Without wanting to come across all Arsenal achievement-like........


......time to dust these off

[red g]

he odds of it occurring are astronomical but with less than a week of the Premier League season remaining, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester City could finish dead level in the table.

Rules state that clubs ending the campaign on identical points, goal difference and goals scored must play off at a neutral venue to decide which of them is placed higher in the final standings if the title, European qualification or relegation is at stake.

It is possible, therefore, that there may need to be a three-team play-off – with each side playing two matches each – for two Champions League spots if Liverpool, Arsenal and City cannot be separated come teatime on Sunday.

For Liverpool to be involved in such a play-off, they would need to lose their final match of the season at home to Middlesbrough, leaving them on 73 points.

They could then finish dead level with one or both of City (72pts) and Arsenal (69pts), who would need to take one and four points, respectively, from their last two fixtures.

Liverpool and City could also end the season level if the former beat Boro and the latter take four points from their final two games against West Bromwich Albion and Watford.

For Arsenal and City to be inseparable, the former must take three more points than the latter in the coming six days and overturn their rivals’ +5 goal-difference advantage.

Although there are technically infinite scenarios in which all three of the above teams could finish dead level, the most likely is the following set of results:

Tuesday

Arsenal 3 Sunderland 0

Man City 2 West Brom 2

Sunday

Liverpool 0 Boro 1

Arsenal 0 Everton 0

Watford 3 Man City 1

That would leave all three sides with a goal difference of +32, with each having also scored 75 goals.

The only difference between them would be that Arsenal would have won and lost more times (W22, D7, L9) than Liverpool and City (W21, D10, L7).

Were head to head between the teams a factor (which it is not), Liverpool (W3, D1, L0) would finish third, City (W1, D2, L1) fourth, and Arsenal (W0, D1, L3) fifth.

The Premier League is known to have made plans before for a 39th game of the season: when Manchester United and Newcastle United threatened to finish dead level in the 1995-96 title race; when Chelsea and Arsenal were in danger of doing the same four years ago; and when Liverpool and West Ham United were vying for a Europa League spot last season.

It is understood the Premier League will only meet to discuss similar plans if Tuesday night’s matches keep alive the realistic prospect of a dead-level finish in the race for Champions League qualification.

League executives are unlikely to take into account Liverpool’s post-season trip to Australia – they play Sydney FC three days after the Boro game – when setting a date.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/15/arsenal-liverpool-man-city-could-end-three-team-play-off-champions/

[Exiled_red]

It's really unlikely to happen but if 3 teams were to finish level a 3 game play off system seems ridiculous. Surely it should go to a head-to-head record and use a play off as a last resort after that.

[ChesterDave]

It would be the logical thing but they probably can't and would be forced to go with the play off system. The rules have been set up at the start of the season and it is quite a stretch for 2 teams to finish level so I suppose they never remotely considered multiple teams might finish dead level.

For future seasons they could change provisions. If they did H2H we would be third so obviously we would be chuffed. City would be 4th and probably wouldn't kick up a stink and risk not qualifying to play 2 extra games. Arsenal would lose out and would be moaning to high heaven (rightly so you might argue).

The biggest problem for a 3 team play off system is the teams in the final match will know exactly what they need to do and may play out a bore draw if it suits both not to risk losing

[Le Chef]

Look if we can't beat a relegated Boro at home we don't ****ing deserve to be in the CL

[Exiled_red]

It would be the logical thing but they probably can't and would be forced to go with the play off system. The rules have been set up at the start of the season and it is quite a stretch for 2 teams to finish level so I suppose they never remotely considered multiple teams might finish dead level.

For future seasons they could change provisions. If they did H2H we would be third so obviously we would be chuffed. City would be 4th and probably wouldn't kick up a stink and risk not qualifying to play 2 extra games. Arsenal would lose out and would be moaning to high heaven (rightly so you might argue).

The biggest problem for a 3 team play off system is the teams in the final match will know exactly what they need to do and may play out a bore draw if it suits both not to risk losing

They obviously can't change it now but given that the 39th game has been a possibility a couple of times you would assume that they have thought about it. In some situations you can see the appeal, a playoff between the top 2 with the winner taking the title would be exciting (and you imagine the PL would milk it) Similarly a relegation playoff with the loser going down. But for more or less everything else I think the head to head would be better, obviously different methods for when different things are at stake, isn't a good way to define rules.

As you say for a 3-way tie the situation could easily become a farce

[baitman]

dafoe is a real threat but no one up with him.

it wasnt him, its the daft bog brush with a white mohican ndong

[Kenneth]

He can't run in behind even when Borini sees space to play the ball into so he's not bothering. Can't see Sunderland holding out in the second half but can see Arsenal getting at least a couple.