how we should approach the bus parkers

[Kenneth]

Unless Firmino gets injured.

[Buzzo]

Unless Firmino gets injured.

The attack isnt the issue *caveat*..tactically.

[Havors]

Anyone else think this is all a bit knee jerk?

I mean, we've lost 5 games in 46 games across all competitions.

That's really not bad at all.

It was just a **** day at the office for all, let's move on and trash Huddersfield, WBA and Spurs.

How many have we drawn? And how many were scraped through by one goal?

[danperkins]

If Firmino or Salah gets injured (which will happen) we are pretty ****ed. Seems an insane risk not to try strengthen our attacking/midfield options

[Roboklopp]

The stats include coutinho being here -so far the only game against teams that sit back we’ve played, we’ve lost.

[Tatterdemalion]

I think we need players who will run at the defence in games like this, that and fast forward passing to runners into the box (from midfield or further back?). Essentially you want to unsettle the defence and make them lose their shape, don't you? Maybe some nice 5-a-side training . Against Swansea we just kept passing it around in a U shape ahead of two banks of four, waiting for someone to get out of position, which was never going to happen given we were moving at 5mph.

Thankfully Keita will give us some of that movement next season, but really I think the issue is training some fast one touch passing routines into the players.

Good thread btw.

[Norbs]

The stats include coutinho being here -so far the only game against teams that sit back we’ve played, we’ve lost.

Yeah and the only league game that VVD has staryed, we've lost

[Exiled_red]

Exactly. The attack isn't the issue.

I'm not sure things are that simple. IMO you have to expect that you are going to concede a goal in every game (to account for a goal from nothing, a set-piece, a poor refereeing decision or whatever). So in order to win a game I think that you need to expect to score at least 2 goals. I tend to think of it this way: if you don't score 2 goals then your attack have let you down, if you concede 2 or more your defence have let you down. Obviously this doesn't take into account the details of the match but I think that it is a reasonable expectation.

Looking at our results on this basis and who is responsible for us not winning:
Watford (A) 3-3 Defence
Man City (A) 5-0 Both
Burnley (H) 1-1 Attack
Newcastle (A) 1-1 Attack
Man Utd (H) 0-0 Attack
Tottenham (A) 4-1 Both
Chelsea (H) 1-1 Attack
Everton (H) 1-1 Attack
West Brom (H) 0-0 Attack
Arsenal (A) 3-3 Defence
Swansea (A) 1-0 Attack

There are 10 games where we have failed to score more than 1 goal, and 12 games were we have scored 3 or more, so I think that the level of consistency of scoring goals is a bit of a problem. That said the defence haven't helped out the attack as there is only one game where the attack has scored only one and the defence has kept a clean sheet enabling us to win compared to 2 games where we conceded 2 or more but the attack got the goals to allow us to win.

[BG1973]

Were they my team I would tell them to go full attack for First 20 mins.

If we don’t score and they are obviously parking the bus, then let them have the ball instead and see how they react.

I’m not sure what the outcome would be but I think we might end up with opportunities.

Or the most boring game we’ve ever seen.

[Norbs]

Were they my team I would tell them to go full attack for First 20 mins.

If we don’t score and they are obviously parking the bus, then let them have the ball instead and see how they react.

I’m not sure what the outcome would be but I think we might end up with opportunities.

Or the most boring game we’ve ever seen.

Completely agree with the first part, pretty much what Rodgers did. It also makes us dictate the pace of the game and not get in a rut. Get noses ahead and then they have to commit. Trouble is with the second part that our game is based on harrying them in possession and I'd rather we carried on than making a huge change to our style of play

[Exiled_red]

Were they my team I would tell them to go full attack for First 20 mins.

If we don’t score and they are obviously parking the bus, then let them have the ball instead and see how they react.

I’m not sure what the outcome would be but I think we might end up with opportunities.

Or the most boring game we’ve ever seen.

I think that letting them have the ball would probably just see them time wasting. They are looking for a draw and that is just making it easier for them to get it.

[rudedog]

I dunno.

Talking of three midfielders and the best modern mifield that I have seen... had one defensive holding player, a midfield who directed play, and then an attacking midfielder who could dribble and pick a pass (as well as score).

That was Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard... last time we had 3 world class midfielders in the same team

Sadly we are a country mile away from any of those players in terms of quality.

I know we play a bit differently, but none of our midfielders have those qualities approaching those levels.

Keita is coming in but I bet most of us cant even decide where he should play, only that he should on the basis he is miles better than the other midfielders. I am hoping we have a plan on how to fill the other two slots longterm... obviously by then Salah and Firmino will be off and we wont be able to score... no hurry though. Take your time. It not like our rivals are strengthening obvious deficiencies.

I remember lots of people unhappy with Rafa when he played those 3 against 'lesser' teams. Mascherano and Alonso both being deep lying midfielders who weren't effective against the bus parkers.

[Darkon]

To me the most essential part to change against deep lying teams is our midfield. We simply need players that can bring the ball forward better, and make more forward passes rather than sideways. The combination of Gini/Can against those teams just doesn't work IMO. It's great against aggressive/attacking teams because they break up the game well and hold it up well, but against bus teams we need something different. Henderson is a way better forward passer, but we need more than him back. Maybe moving Lallana back in central?

We don't have a lot of options, but something along those lines for me. That said, we did enough to win the game against Swansea, we just didn't finish the chances we got.

[BG1973]

I think that letting them have the ball would probably just see them time wasting. They are looking for a draw and that is just making it easier for them to get it.

One other way of giving them the ball in dangerous areas is going longer and then pouncing on the second balls which we have players to do.

I’d like to see us try something tactically different.

[baitman]

One other way of giving them the ball in dangerous areas is going longer and then pouncing on the second balls which we have players to do.

I’d like to see us try something tactically different.

interesting option actually...

usually the long ball option is maybe one or two strikers but they are often up against two centre backs and possibly a full back or two.

if we were to flood the final third with out two wingers either side, and two attackers in the middle, with two midfielders also coming up a bit to go for the second balls then the odds would be tipped in our favour.
we would have their defenders moving to get the ball so they would break their defensive positions and we might then find a way through.
its got to be better than the ****e sideways passing.