2022/23 Season

[Pablo]

Still think the Henderson contract was a key moment, at least symbolically. That’s when our ‘Bellingham’ type midfield transfer should have happened, with Henderson moving on. That’s what clubs used to maintaining success would have done.

Yep, I agree with that .

There has to be a certain element of ruthlessness if you want to stay at the very top. I do think we've lacked that. We probably have the happiest, nicest squad in the Premier League, but they are too comfortable IMO. They need a bit of fear that if they don't perform they will be bombed out. That hasn't happened and the rot has started to set in.

[Bender]

Top 4 is going to be a real struggle imo, we're just too easy to play against.

Top 6 is going to be a push

[Irishnev]

Still think the Henderson contract was a key moment, at least symbolically. That’s when our ‘Bellingham’ type midfield transfer should have happened, with Henderson moving on. That’s what clubs used to maintaining success would have done.

I think he should have stayed but not on a new contract - his old deal would have ended this summer. The conversation would have been very different - instead he got 2 extra years and more money. If he wanted to leave then so be it

I also think it was the penny dropping moment for Edwards who clearly saw his way was being overruled. Edwards was cold data and no touchy feely intangibles

[ntto]

Yup, no identity anymore. We're all saying the same things, we don't have the players to play in what we know is a Jurgen Klopp system. I honestly don't think it's a case of us even needing middle eastern oil guys buying the club, we just were negligent in our midfield recruitment, it's as simple as that. Yeah sure big oil money would have been great to buy whomever but this whole thing of "we wait for our specific targets" just doesn't work all the time. Just look at us now, we are stuck.

Sad thing is that I don't think that it was necessary a year ago to get big money owners in either. We've been selling to buy for years and massively over achieved because of spot on recruitment. For some reason we just have not addressed the midfield issues and every single person can see it apart from Klopp and Pep. For every Jude, Tchoumeni, Barella these marquee players etc there is a Caicedo, Guimares, Bentacur. We've all been praising our recruitment but we have just failed miserably in this particular area imo.

I love Klopp and before yesterday's game he was basic saying it's not monopoly and the money isn't there etc but he just hasn't been ruthless enough imo. Keita, Ox, Bobby, should have been gone at least a years ago, certainly Keita and Ox anyways. There was many on here that still wanted to keep them. Henderson and Milner are in the phasing out process and although having them as experienced squad members is great, neither are good enough to be starters and certainly not having to rely on them to start back to back games. How much wages are these guys taking out of the club weekly, what is their value for money and if they had of been gone... Would the money been there to get who we needed if indeed money was the issue?

Even the recent signings Jota, Diaz, Gakpo, Nunez all excel on the left, I'm just not sure what our thinking is. There just been a strange shift in our recruitment, we've needed a Gini replacement and we did not get one, someone robust, mobile who will run themselves into the ground every week. We've seen a massive drop off in running, pressing, intensity over the last year but we've got by as we have world class players but the engine of the team is gone and the identity of the is gone. I have no doubts in my mind if we had the two mids with legs in there last season, we would have won the quad. We have quality everywhere but frankly, sometimes you need blokes who are relentless and aggressive and are a mechanism to release the other world class players to do their thing. I'm not saying we just should have bought some random sprinter but there is nobody that can tell me with the way we've been recruiting over the years that a quality mid with pace and physicality wasn't available. We simply didn't sign one.. or two as is needed. Do we even run anymore, or press anymore. We seem to get out muscled and outfought in most games. Why on earth would you start Elliot vs Brentford away? It's preposterous, he got bounced around. Fab can't run, Thiago is tiny, Elliot is weak as piss. That's on Klopp, as is playing a 4 3 3 that we so not have the players to play it successfully. I would have even understood is we played 3 CB's yesterday instead of that ****e as we knew that Brentford would play like.

Carra mentioned Pep there, if his influence is that slow dutch pussy footing around football, then good luck he can go sell some books elsewhere. We became successful not only by having world class players but by specific recruitment and having a team that would not give you a second on the ball, aggressive, relentless pressing and drive that teams could not handle. That sadly, is long gone.

when Klopp first arrived and implemented his system it was very clear we didnt have the players capable of playing it. Skrtle was the obvious one for me, he just wasnt comfortable both on the ball in general or passing it out of defence whilest being pressed.

He was gone shortly after. Klopp was ruthless - but he never wavered from the system, the players had to suit the system and that was that. It seems to be the opposite now, the players he brought in cant play that system so it's being changed (not incremented or amended).

Very few teams could deal with our balls-out press and we should go back to it whether we have the players or not - it's ours and Klopps identity

[danperkins]

Talk about value for money

- Naby (£120k pw/£6.2m per year) should have been sold two years ago
- Milner (£60k pw/£3.1m per year) should have been gone in the summer
- Firmino (£180k per week/£9.3m per year) should have been gone in the summer
- Ox (£120k pw/£6.2m per year) should have been gone two years ago.
- Hendo (£140k per week/£7.2m per year) would have been of this summer
- Nat Philips (£64k per week/£3.3m per year) should have been sold in the summer
- Arthur Melo (£110 per week)/£5.7m per year) should never have been bought, panic buy. **** off!

It is simple, players that are not providing value for money, sell. Get players in that do provide value for money.

[danperkins]

when Klopp first arrived and implemented his system it was very clear we didnt have the players capable of playing it. Skrtle was the obvious one for me, he just wasnt comfortable both on the ball in general or passing it out of defence whilest being pressed.

He was gone shortly after. Klopp was ruthless - but he never wavered from the system, the players had to suit the system and that was that. It seems to be the opposite now, the players he brought in cant play that system so it's being changed (not incremented or amended).

Very few teams could deal with our balls-out press and we should go back to it whether we have the players or not - it's ours and Klopps identity

I agree but we simply don't have the legs in the side or the players anymore that can do it. We are stuck.

[Tribute]

Feels like the defensive issues are all coming from the ease of which teams are just playing through our midfield. It's putting the defence on the back foot - they're not not used to wave after wave of attack from every opposition.

Not helped by injuries, sure, but also players like Fabinho and VVD having poor seasons doesn't help either. We needed to strengthen midfield last season and again this summer to help bridge the age gap between the old guard/Gini's exit and the next generation - Elliott and Carvahlo. There's just not enough in the midfield tank this season - Hendo's legs have gone, Thiago is an injury worry, Fab has been hot and cold (mainly cold) and Jones is mediocre when he's not a sicknote. We needed a DeJong, Bellingham, Rice... whoever, to give us some steel (and legs for the press) in the middle. It's been an obvious flaw for two seasons. We've done well to replace Sadio with Diaz/Nunez and now Gakpo and goals will come... but our midfield must be the lowest kms and shots in the PL this season. Seems like we get over-run constantly against bang average teams who are just well drilled.

I don't think it's the end of Jurgen, I just think for the sake of keeping some of the senior squad happy after Sadio left... they made the wrong (emotional) decisions when they should have been bringing in established new midfield faces.

Mo's contract, Hendo's contract, Bobby's contract... all seem very sentimental choices. Mo shouldn't go without criticism either, he disappeared last night in the second half and has been just as guilty as Nunez of missing gilt-edged chances this season too.

Definitely need a midfielder in Jan - and not another ****ing Arthur pancake either. Someone decent who has an engine on them, and is rarely injured. **** knows who that might be but not getting carried away with the 'Oooh he had a good world cup' nonsense.. I'd prefer a PL midfielder who can do the donkey work and start the press., If that's an 'unsung hero' somewhere then so be it. We're not Citeh, we don't need mega-bucks celebrity signings every day of the year...we need someone who will do a damned good job and be reliable, putting in a shift x10 for the rest of the season

[RichC]

Talk about value for money

- Naby (£120k pw/£6.2m per year) should have been sold two years ago
- Milner (£60k pw/£3.1m per year) should have been gone in the summer
- Firmino (£180k per week/£9.3m per year) should have been gone in the summer
- Ox (£120k pw/£6.2m per year) should have been gone two years ago.
- Hendo (£140k per week/£7.2m per year) would have been of this summer
- Nat Philips (£64k per week/£3.3m per year) should have been sold in the summer
- Arthur Melo (£110 per week)/£5.7m per year) should never have been bought, panic buy. **** off!

It is simple, players that are not providing value for money, sell. Get players in that do provide value for money.

It's not that simple when there are contracts in place.

On a positive there are going to be players on that list leaving this summer which will free up wages and places in the squad.

Ox, Naby & maybe Bobby will be gone and I struggle to believe we'll be keeping Arthur this summer.

Phillips if we can shift would bring in a bit of cash.

There's quite a bit of work to be done really, especially in midfield where we need to find players that will bring back that energy and work-rate that we seem to be massively missing now

[rudedog]

It's funny reading all the experts on here with the simple solutions to our current problems.

We've been here before and Klopp has been the one to sort it out, not a bunch of revisionist armchair managers

[danperkins]

Feels like the defensive issues are all coming from the ease of which teams are just playing through our midfield. It's putting the defence on the back foot - they're not not used to wave after wave of attack from every opposition.

Not helped by injuries, sure, but also players like Fabinho and VVD having poor seasons doesn't help either. We needed to strengthen midfield last season and again this summer to help bridge the age gap between the old guard/Gini's exit and the next generation - Elliott and Carvahlo. There's just not enough in the midfield tank this season - Hendo's legs have gone, Thiago is an injury worry, Fab has been hot and cold (mainly cold) and Jones is mediocre when he's not a sicknote. We needed a DeJong, Bellingham, Rice... whoever, to give us some steel (and legs for the press) in the middle. It's been an obvious flaw for two seasons. We've done well to replace Sadio with Diaz/Nunez and now Gakpo and goals will come... but our midfield must be the lowest kms and shots in the PL this season. Seems like we get over-run constantly against bang average teams who are just well drilled.

I don't think it's the end of Jurgen, I just think for the sake of keeping some of the senior squad happy after Sadio left... they made the wrong (emotional) decisions when they should have been bringing in established new midfield faces.

Mo's contract, Hendo's contract, Bobby's contract... all seem very sentimental choices. Mo shouldn't go without criticism either, he disappeared last night in the second half and has been just as guilty as Nunez of missing gilt-edged chances this season too.

Definitely need a midfielder in Jan - and not another ****ing Arthur pancake either. Someone decent who has an engine on them, and is rarely injured. **** knows who that might be but not getting carried away with the 'Oooh he had a good world cup' nonsense.. I'd prefer a PL midfielder who can do the donkey work and start the press., If that's an 'unsung hero' somewhere then so be it. We're not Citeh, we don't need mega-bucks celebrity signings every day of the year...we need someone who will do a damned good job and be reliable, putting in a shift x10 for the rest of the season

We didn't even need the Jude, Rice, Enzo, DeJong marquee big money/big wage signings. There is value for money everywhere if the right people are looking. We've got amazing deals in Klopp's time & getting these guys that every other club are after that will command 350 or 400k per week just isn't feasible but that doesn't doesn't mean we cannot get quality elsewhere for a fraction of the price and wage. We've just been negligent with that midfield.

[danperkins]

It's not that simple when there are contracts in place.

On a positive there are going to be players on that list leaving this summer which will free up wages and places in the squad.

Ox, Naby & maybe Bobby will be gone and I struggle to believe we'll be keeping Arthur this summer.

Phillips if we can shift would bring in a bit of cash.

There's quite a bit of work to be done really, especially in midfield where we need to find players that will bring back that energy and work-rate that we seem to be massively missing now

of course it's more complex but what I am saying is with our current owners we usually sell to buy and have low net spends for a team competing and sometimes winning the biggest trophies. We work on a value for money system & it is imperative that if a player isn't providing value for money for LFC then he should be moved on, get wages off the books and go again with new blood.

I would hazard a guess that most guys on that list we be gone in the summer but it's just too little, too late unfortunately as the damage is done.

[Harv]

Still think the Henderson contract was a key moment, at least symbolically. That’s when our ‘Bellingham’ type midfield transfer should have happened, with Henderson moving on. That’s what clubs used to maintaining success would have done.

I said it at the time. He should've been moved into the Milner role, and if he refused that role and not getting a big shiny new contract then he should've been moved on. He might be a good leader, but he's an average footballer.

Klopp's loyalty to the senior players is going to be the end of him. Milner, Ox, Hendo, Gomez and Firmino all should've been moved on or to different roles. But he's stuck by them, instead moving on actually useful players like Minamino for no apparent reason.

Caving into to Sarah's wage demands was also a mistake IMO. He's made his money now and doesn't give a ****. He'll still score his tap ins, but his general play is largely ****e.

[Buzzo]

Caving into to Sarah's wage demands was also a mistake IMO. He's made his money now and doesn't give a ****. He'll still score his tap ins, but his general play is largely ****e.

Salah is about as far from a tap in merchant as you could find.

Do you even watch the games?

Salah and Nunez are developing a decent partnership. Salah played a beautiful pass into Nunez last night. The problem is that they alhave been out only 2 fit senior forwards for the last few months. The fact is that they are learning on the job having to play every match both are getting in great positions and neither are finishing to the required percentage (Nunez 11 and Salah 15 both short of the average which would be about 25-30).

Our last really good performance was v City. When Jota played out of his skin and got injured.

Injuries have been a factor.

But lack of investment in front line midfielders and a change I. Playing style that we are struggling with moving from a false 9 to a more physical dominant 9 has been something the formation and tactics are struggling with.

[ntto]

I agree but we simply don't have the legs in the side or the players anymore that can do it. We are stuck.

that was kinda my point, we've not had the players before (when Klopp first arrived) and he persisted with the tactic

[Slinky Skills]

Feels like the defensive issues are all coming from the ease of which teams are just playing through our midfield. It's putting the defence on the back foot - they're not not used to wave after wave of attack from every opposition.

Not helped by injuries, sure, but also players like Fabinho and VVD having poor seasons doesn't help either. We needed to strengthen midfield last season and again this summer to help bridge the age gap between the old guard/Gini's exit and the next generation - Elliott and Carvahlo. There's just not enough in the midfield tank this season - Hendo's legs have gone, Thiago is an injury worry, Fab has been hot and cold (mainly cold) and Jones is mediocre when he's not a sicknote. We needed a DeJong, Bellingham, Rice... whoever, to give us some steel (and legs for the press) in the middle. It's been an obvious flaw for two seasons. We've done well to replace Sadio with Diaz/Nunez and now Gakpo and goals will come... but our midfield must be the lowest kms and shots in the PL this season. Seems like we get over-run constantly against bang average teams who are just well drilled.

I don't think it's the end of Jurgen, I just think for the sake of keeping some of the senior squad happy after Sadio left... they made the wrong (emotional) decisions when they should have been bringing in established new midfield faces.

Mo's contract, Hendo's contract, Bobby's contract... all seem very sentimental choices. Mo shouldn't go without criticism either, he disappeared last night in the second half and has been just as guilty as Nunez of missing gilt-edged chances this season too.

Definitely need a midfielder in Jan - and not another ****ing Arthur pancake either. Someone decent who has an engine on them, and is rarely injured. **** knows who that might be but not getting carried away with the 'Oooh he had a good world cup' nonsense.. I'd prefer a PL midfielder who can do the donkey work and start the press., If that's an 'unsung hero' somewhere then so be it. We're not Citeh, we don't need mega-bucks celebrity signings every day of the year...we need someone who will do a damned good job and be reliable, putting in a shift x10 for the rest of the season

Arthur Pancake lol.