Preseason Friendlies

[Fosterbloke]

I think Gakpo is one of the first names on the team sheet right now.

I guess the real answer is 'it depends'. It depends on the opposition, it depends on our approach, and of course it depends on injuries.

I know it was only a friendly but there was a real chemistry between Salah and Nunez that I didn't see with Diaz or Gakpo. But a rather large caveat is that it was a training session but you can't ignore the excellent build up play between them.

It's clear that we have a good blend of attackers to suit an open game, a low block and everything in between.

[baitman]

Yep, we very much need to change the team to accommodate him in the role as he is not suited to being a midfielder that will get through a lot of the work side of things in the centre.

I am still not sure he is such an outstanding talent in the middle that we need to change our formation and need to add two more players just to cover for him.

KDB at City does all the play maker stuff and puts in a shift as a proper CM when City do not have the ball.


The risk we run with having to accommodate TAA imo is that when he is off form or injured we then have to tweak the team again to get some balance again.


Also think we look quite unbalanced with him in the centre and whilst our attacking ability is freed up a bit more, as seen in the latter quarter of last season and in preseason, we are far from solid when pressed as TAA in not the best in the centre against a press and we are still seeing gaps between the DM and RB channels that leaves the CBs exposed a tad imo.

Think I would prefer to see a DM who can progress play come in and TAA go back to being a play making RB and also have a LCB that can cover LB come in.

We need both those positions filled regardless of whether TAA stays in the middle or goes back to RB anyway imo.

Trent is the elephant in klopps team...
He wants to be the deep lying playmaker so he gets accommodated. He seems oblivious to opposition players wandering past him. Trent has turned into a bit of a prima donna, happy to be the rampaging midfielder, throwing around the long hollywood passes.
He cannot be trusted to cover one side of the box midfield, so we pull our right back or rcb out of position to cover for trent, which then unbalance's the middle of the defence.
Teams will be relishing the space vacated by trent and the players who are trying to cover while he goes for a wander.
If we play lavia alongside trent then it will be a big ask for the young lad to cover for him.
I'd say bajcetic could not only play the dm role but also do the deep distribution that trent could, but he wouldn't leave lava so exposed.
Let's just play trent as a 10, whatever he wants, just keep him happy...

[BigChief]

Trent is the elephant in klopps team...
He wants to be the deep lying playmaker so he gets accommodated. He seems oblivious to opposition players wandering past him. Trent has turned into a bit of a prima donna, happy to be the rampaging midfielder, throwing around the long hollywood passes.
He cannot be trusted to cover one side of the box midfield, so we pull our right back or rcb out of position to cover for trent, which then unbalance's the middle of the defence.
Teams will be relishing the space vacated by trent and the players who are trying to cover while he goes for a wander.
If we play lavia alongside trent then it will be a big ask for the young lad to cover for him.
I'd say bajcetic could not only play the dm role but also do the deep distribution that trent could, but he wouldn't leave lava so exposed.
Let's just play trent as a 10, whatever he wants, just keep him happy...

Wow. I've never seen such an accident of a post in real life. It's truly traumatic.

[Fosterbloke]

Trent is the elephant in klopps team...
He wants to be the deep lying playmaker so he gets accommodated. He seems oblivious to opposition players wandering past him. Trent has turned into a bit of a prima donna, happy to be the rampaging midfielder, throwing around the long hollywood passes.
He cannot be trusted to cover one side of the box midfield, so we pull our right back or rcb out of position to cover for trent, which then unbalance's the middle of the defence.
Teams will be relishing the space vacated by trent and the players who are trying to cover while he goes for a wander.
If we play lavia alongside trent then it will be a big ask for the young lad to cover for him.
I'd say bajcetic could not only play the dm role but also do the deep distribution that trent could, but he wouldn't leave lava so exposed.
Let's just play trent as a 10, whatever he wants, just keep him happy...

Did a beta version of ChatGPT write that?

[Cerbie]

I guess the real answer is 'it depends'. It depends on the opposition, it depends on our approach, and of course it depends on injuries.

I know it was only a friendly but there was a real chemistry between Salah and Nunez that I didn't see with Diaz or Gakpo. But a rather large caveat is that it was a training session but you can't ignore the excellent build up play between them.

It's clear that we have a good blend of attackers to suit an open game, a low block and everything in between.

Agree on the first para, but would add it depends who else we lose this window. My main fear being Salah to PSG if Mbappe takes the Saudi deal.

On the chemistry, they clearly linked up well yesterday, both producing great finishes for their goals, but I thought Mo was a little less interested in the celebrations than Darwin. Might have been cos it was a friendly.

[rudedog]

Trent is the elephant in klopps team...
He wants to be the deep lying playmaker so he gets accommodated. He seems oblivious to opposition players wandering past him. Trent has turned into a bit of a prima donna, happy to be the rampaging midfielder, throwing around the long hollywood passes.
He cannot be trusted to cover one side of the box midfield, so we pull our right back or rcb out of position to cover for trent, which then unbalance's the middle of the defence.
Teams will be relishing the space vacated by trent and the players who are trying to cover while he goes for a wander.
If we play lavia alongside trent then it will be a big ask for the young lad to cover for him.
I'd say bajcetic could not only play the dm role but also do the deep distribution that trent could, but he wouldn't leave lava so exposed.
Let's just play trent as a 10, whatever he wants, just keep him happy...

You seem to have a real issue/agenda with Trent?

[baitman]

You seem to have a real issue/agenda with Trent?

I also had an issue with our poor midfield when we finished second. Everyone else saying it was madness to be critical of our guys when we had just come second, even though it was basically salah and vvd dragging us through.
I really hope trent can become the midfield supremo we have been missing, but I don't think we can rely on him defensively. If other players then have to come out of position to accommodate him it still leave the void at rb/cb that other teams have been exploiting.

[Corndog]

In reality it’s not so black and white though. Trent may not be the best defensively but he can win tackles. He won’t just refuse to do it at all.

Better to pair him with a DM in the middle of the park or send him back to one of his earlier RB roles than have this hybrid RB CM role that I agree, is too easy to exploit in transition of the team loses the ball on the counter

[baitman]

In reality it’s not so black and white though. Trent may not be the best defensively but he can win tackles.
He won’t just refuse to do it at all.

Better to pair him with a DM in the middle of the park or send him back to one of his earlier RB roles than have this hybrid RB CM role that I agree, is too easy to exploit in transition of the team loses the ball on the counter

We have watched him wander around the rb area oblivious to players around him, no peripheral vision (dreads in the way?), making half hearted challenges.
Maybe it could possibly be excused if he's just busted his lungs and he is struggling to get back into position but often he's just ball watching.
This really isn't a crusade, it's the reality. He has been a great defender and a great wingback. We didn't say he was a generational talent and possibly the best rb in the word because we were all sniffing glue, but he really has fell off a cliff.
This "reinvention" is an attempt to make the best of his long balls and attacking skills, but it kind of paints over the issues of his lack of concentration and awareness.

[Corndog]

We have watched him wander around the rb area oblivious to players around him, no peripheral vision (dreads in the way?), making half hearted challenges.
Maybe it could possibly be excused if he's just busted his lungs and he is struggling to get back into position but often he's just ball watching.
This really isn't a crusade, it's the reality. He has been a great defender and a great wingback. We didn't say he was a generational talent and possibly the best rb in the word because we were all sniffing glue, but he really has fell off a cliff.
This "reinvention" is an attempt to make the best of his long balls and attacking skills, but it kind of paints over the issues of his lack of concentration and awareness.

Yes it seemed like that a few times last season but he hasn’t been like that in the majority oh his LFC games. He can get back to where he was for the first 5 or so years.

[Charly]

I dont get the idea of Trent as a DM.

That position is the most restrictive in the team. You cant get forward.

The idea of his RB position was that it gave him licence to support the attack.


I dont even think he would make a decent DM. I remember Gerrad in there, and he was not great. Hendo was poor in there to. You need someone with the right instincts who is prepared to sacrifice getting forward to do the job of sitting there. Its a waste of TAAs talents, and goes against his instincts.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I dont get the idea of Trent as a DM.

That position is the most restrictive in the team. You cant get forward.

The idea of his RB position was that it gave him licence to support the attack.


I dont even think he would make a decent DM. I remember Gerrad in there, and he was not great. Hendo was poor in there to. You need someone with the right instincts who is prepared to sacrifice getting forward to do the job of sitting there. Its a waste of TAAs talents, and goes against his instincts.

Would argue that in many ways it is the most taxing position and the one that requires the most responsibility.

It is the one positions from which you need to be watching every other position on your team and also watching everything the other team is doing too.

You need to be fully aware of what all the defenders behind you are doing and where they are, you needs to be aware of what all your midfielders are doing, where they are, and where they are about to be, you need to know where your wide men and central attacks are.

You need to know all that in order to know best where to lay your next pass off so that play starts moving towards where you see a run about to be made in two passes time and you need to be aware of where all your own guys are so you can anticipate where the other team might try to exploit and then move to that spot so the other team has to play a higher risk (to the other team) pass instead of the one that cuts your team up.


The DM needs to maybe have the best reading of the game in the entiore team as he needs to be able to read both the defensive and attacking side of the game equally well, whereas what TAA does (from the Inverted position that is) is read the attacking side realy well when we are on the ball, but he does not seem to be as good at reading the other team's attacking patterns when in that central role that requires a 360 degree reading of the game.


TAA has not become a bad player and he is not a bad defender, however last season for 3/4 of the season he was bad at the defending side of the game and it looked from the outside that he was poor at the self motivational side for the first 3/4s of the season. Our final 1/4 of the season papered over a lot of cracks as results tend to mask a lot of things in the short term.

A poor 3/4 of a season does not a bad player make though, so hopefully he gets things right in his head this season (and personally I hope he goes back to RB and rampages from that position) and he reminds everyone again that he is the guy from the three or four seasons before last season because that particular guy is a world class attacking full back, that guy is an assist machine and that guy is a good defender.

[RedReet]

We have watched him wander around the rb area oblivious to players around him, no peripheral vision (dreads in the way?), making half hearted challenges.
Maybe it could possibly be excused if he's just busted his lungs and he is struggling to get back into position but often he's just ball watching.
This really isn't a crusade, it's the reality. He has been a great defender and a great wingback. We didn't say he was a generational talent and possibly the best rb in the word because we were all sniffing glue, but he really has fell off a cliff.
This "reinvention" is an attempt to make the best of his long balls and attacking skills, but it kind of paints over the issues of his lack of concentration and awareness.

Reality? So while many have been lauding Trent since his positional adjustment, voting him player of the month in April and recognizing how this change was teh catalyist for our change in form, allowing us to finish teh seaon unbeaten, with title winning form, this has been your truth since that day against Arsenal:

Robbo covering for trent, but watch trents positioning when they attack, he's just "hanging around" doing **** all.

Konate doing all trents work. Sick of our team carrying that self important prick.

Generational talent, washed up now.

Really impressed with konate, good tackling and quick.

I'd like to see him as a dm, with matip and vvd in defence.
Gomez at rb and trent sold.

That's been written by trents agent or fanboi, he was all over the place and often just spectating. Konate having to go wide and leave space, trent failing to close down free arsenal winger and when the ball was player to the winger he minces over with no real conviction.

Our system is set in stone, unless you are trent.
Klopp will never change his system, but for his favourite kid who can do no wrong...

Just the hair

Terrance upon Trent West Derby isn't a dm, he's an enigma.
If only we could decode why he doesn't seem to make the effort, yet still has a few moments of decent play.

Maybe trent has what it takes to become a more box to box midfielder.
What worries me is why has a world class right wing back turned so **** defensively...
It must surely be a lack of being arsed. He has had the ability, but now has mentally shut down. Is he just bored being the water carrier?
Klopp changing formations to accommodate trent, very unlike him.
Will trent get bored of his new position and then fancy being the striker next

All this fluidity to allow trent to still be a crap defender.
It still leaves a gap for the other teams to exploit the long diagonal.

The wing backs are much less reliable, especially trent and his curly wig.

If we go 433 when we are being attacked can we rely on trent to slot in and stay focused.
He used to be such a good defender but now he just doesn't seem arsed unless he is rampaging forward and chanelling his inner Stevie G.

Any midfielder would be expected to track back and cover attackers who sneak in behind.
If trent is played as a deep midfielder then will he have any interest in doing his defensive duties.
Trent is becoming the elephant in the room... would we redeploy an honest else to accommodate their own desires.

There is no doubt that Trent has been a brilliant right back and a very solid defender.
To excuse his poor defensive for of last season or two on the lack of cover from midfield is only valid to a small extent.
He can obviously be forgiven when he is further up the pitch and we lose possession and a midfielder or defender fails to cover for him if there is a quick long ball.
What absolutely cannot be excused is when he is back in the right back area and he doesn't even go and cover the available attacker, doesn't drop into the space to prevent a pass, doesn't turn his head to see who is coming behind him, etc.
A general "can't be arsed" to do the less flashy stuff.
He has done amazing to get to where he was. Seen by many as the world's best right back, and not just for his support and assists for the attack...
Whether he goes on to be a world class midfielder isn't really the thing for me.
I'm more concern with the mentality of the player and management that allows a player to be generally poor in his given position and then accommodates his desire to play where he wants.
We have been lucky that konate can cover for him but it has stretched our centre backs and then left vvd, who has himself also been struggling, more exposed.
Maybe playing with a back three will be a better solution, but this "fluid" system creates uncertainty as to who will cover and will ultimately depend on having settled players who can all adapt. Any change in personal will expose the weaknesses and again leave us flapping at the back.

So professional that he was stinking out the RB position that klopp "swapped" him to midfield. So versatile that he couldn't do any defending for us.
If he goes back to RB and gets his mojo back I will be very surprised but also really pleased.
If he has cut that mop off then there is every chance he has got his mind right and moved on from his snoop doggy dayz.

About time, it's been making him ****e for ages.

Let's see... but would have been better with a number 1.

Lavia along side bajcetic would be a solid pairing.
I worry that klopp will play trent alonside lavia, and trent isn't arsed about doing his own defensive work...

Trent is the elephant in klopps team...
He wants to be the deep lying playmaker so he gets accommodated. He seems oblivious to opposition players wandering past him. Trent has turned into a bit of a prima donna, happy to be the rampaging midfielder, throwing around the long hollywood passes.
He cannot be trusted to cover one side of the box midfield, so we pull our right back or rcb out of position to cover for trent, which then unbalance's the middle of the defence.
Teams will be relishing the space vacated by trent and the players who are trying to cover while he goes for a wander.
If we play lavia alongside trent then it will be a big ask for the young lad to cover for him.
I'd say bajcetic could not only play the dm role but also do the deep distribution that trent could, but he wouldn't leave lava so exposed.
Let's just play trent as a 10, whatever he wants, just keep him happy...

I wish I could say I creatively edited out some positive posts, but there was not a singe one.

[RedReet]

Would argue that in many ways it is the most taxing position and the one that requires the most responsibility.

It is the one positions from which you need to be watching every other position on your team and also watching everything the other team is doing too.

You need to be fully aware of what all the defenders behind you are doing and where they are, you needs to be aware of what all your midfielders are doing, where they are, and where they are about to be, you need to know where your wide men and central attacks are.

You need to know all that in order to know best where to lay your next pass off so that play starts moving towards where you see a run about to be made in two passes time and you need to be aware of where all your own guys are so you can anticipate where the other team might try to exploit and then move to that spot so the other team has to play a higher risk (to the other team) pass instead of the one that cuts your team up.


The DM needs to maybe have the best reading of the game in the entiore team as he needs to be able to read both the defensive and attacking side of the game equally well, whereas what TAA does (from the Inverted position that is) is read the attacking side realy well when we are on the ball, but he does not seem to be as good at reading the other team's attacking patterns when in that central role that requires a 360 degree reading of the game.


TAA has not become a bad player and he is not a bad defender, however last season for 3/4 of the season he was bad at the defending side of the game and it looked from the outside that he was poor at the self motivational side for the first 3/4s of the season. Our final 1/4 of the season papered over a lot of cracks as results tend to mask a lot of things in the short term.

A poor 3/4 of a season does not a bad player make though, so hopefully he gets things right in his head this season (and personally I hope he goes back to RB and rampages from that position) and he reminds everyone again that he is the guy from the three or four seasons before last season because that particular guy is a world class attacking full back, that guy is an assist machine and that guy is a good defender.

TBF to Trent, he did recognise his own shortcomings when it came to awareness/ reading of the game etc and arranged specialist training pre-season a few years ago to improve this. Personally, I thought there was evidence of this at the start of that season, but that could well have been confirmation bias on my behalf, based on the articles I read. Personally, I'm writing of last season as an aberration, just like the Covid season and not draw too many conclusions from it. Obviously that works both ways, so can't say we should be title contenders based on title winning form over the last 10 games (although I believe we will be ).

There was an article last year I've been trying to find, analyzing Trent's defensive capabilities, basically illustrating how his weaknesses are exposed in the FB position, but playing further up suits him better, I think primarily because his recovery stats are excellent, rather than being faced one-on-one with attackers. Can't find it though.

IN terms of playing him as DM as someone raised, I don't think we're considering that as an option. I think out of necessity he has played there pre-season, but also to help him improve his midfield awareness for his new role.

If we can get 1 or 2 more bodies in for midfield and hit teh ground running against Chelsea, I strongly believe we'll challenge City for the title. If we do as well as I hope, I predict that Trent will be in the running for POTY.

[SB]

Reality? So while many have been lauding Trent since his positional adjustment, voting him player of the month in April and recognizing how this change was teh catalyist for our change in form, allowing us to finish teh seaon unbeaten, with title winning form, this has been your truth since that day against Arsenal:




I wish I could say I creatively edited out some positive posts, but there was not a singe one.

Wow that’s some serious detective work right there.