Chelsea (A) 13/08/23 - 16:30 BST

[BigChief]

I missed the game because of a gig. Can someone give me a short recap of our infividual performances? Particularly interested in the new signings and Elliott, Jones and Doak. Thanks

I only saw the second half so will comment on Elliott and Doak. Elliott looked lively like he was fighting for his place in the starting XI. Encouraging as he's been looking like that so preseason too.

Doak was the most exciting introduction but for the 15 minutes he was on not a single one of our feckers passed to him properly. He was chasing **** balls.

[Fuzzy]

I only saw the second half so will comment on Elliott and Doak. Elliott looked lively like he was fighting for his place in the starting XI. Encouraging as he's been looking like that so preseason too.

Doak was the most exciting introduction but for the 15 minutes he was on not a single one of our feckers passed to him properly. He was chasing **** balls.

Thank you!

[Irishnev]

But we do not play with a 433.


We have been going 3223 for the final two or three months of last season, all through pre season and again yesterday.


Also is we go 532 now, we have to bench three from Salah, Nunez, Gakpo, Jota and Diaz. Though to be fair four of them probably could fit into that set up well enough, Diaz would be very much the odd man out as do not think he would suit a CF or ST role.


We would also need to have gotten more back up in for the CB roles if 532 was on the cards because no way are we going through a season playing three from VVD, Konate, Matip or Gomez week in week out without at least two of them being out injured at the same time.


Though last season I would have gone 532 at times given how many players were out of form and how leaky our back line was.

We defend in a 4-3-3 and attack in the box as you said - most of the second half yesterday was 4-3-3 as they had so much of the ball

[Doc_Piptorious]

We defend in a 4-3-3 and attack in the box as you said - most of the second half yesterday was 4-3-3 as they had so much of the ball

Well in theory we defend in a 433 but looking at the heat maps and the like shows that TAA is not really making it a 4 a lot of the time when we are defending.

[frank the tank]

He is a 24 year old player who should be entering his physical prime. Yes he was poor for most of last season but then so where a lot of other player.

He showed for three or fours season in a row prior to last season just how good he is at RB. No way can I accept that a 24 year old player is so passed it now that he cannot with work and discipline return to being the player he was four out of the past five seasons.

Get his head right (in terms of his positioning on the pitch and role) and get him back into that RB position as an attacking RB rather than an inverted RB, and I think that world class attacking RB is still there.


If however for some reason he is no longer that player or no longer has the ability to operate at those levels at the age of only 24, then yes the club would be better off getting a massive fee whilst his name is still good.


Though I am going to continue to lean towards last season being a downturn in form (coupled with now being played in a position that he seems to be playing in based on hope rather than any hard data or any hard passing of the eye test) and that the Top Tier attacking RB is still there and just needs to be reset in his old position.

For me, the Trent experiment would have been to play him as a wing back with 3 central defenders in the system. It would have been interesting to see that last season when the season was effectively written off and the fact that we were missing so many midfielders, that was the time to try that. Imo

[Paul12]

...
I'm seriously thinking of selling trent.

It's not Championship Manager you know...you are a spectator/fan

[Kenneth]

But what do we do with him? A generational talent in terms of distribution, a second rate defender, an unproven midfielder.

[Doc_Piptorious]

For me, the Trent experiment would have been to play him as a wing back with 3 central defenders in the system. It would have been interesting to see that last season when the season was effectively written off and the fact that we were missing so many midfielders, that was the time to try that. Imo

It was a missed opportunit, though it could just as easily being argued that continuing with a system that highlights his strengths when we are in possession and others are covering for him but also highlights the fact he is not a natural midfielder at all when we do not have the ball is an exercise in futility.


The stuff he was great at doing on a regular basis from right back he now does sporadically from the central position.

For me it is as simple as putting him back into the role from which he did his best stuff and strengthen the team elsewhere so that we end up with a team that whilst not a clone of our team from 2017 to 2022, has a lot of the same strengths when it comes to hard running, workrate, players reacting to triggers, players able to move across positions without unbalancing the team etc.

Put players into the positions in which they performed the best and that gave the team a better sense of balance just seems so obvious and simple an answer for professional football folk not to be doing.


It begs the questions:

Does Klopp have a blind spot for how the team looks in this set up?

Do we have the right players physically and mentally for such a set up?

Is there some sort of push back from TAA's side to not go back to being an attacking RB?

Why do some people think bacon with fat on it is better in a brekkie roll than a crispy piece of bacon?


For me we are trying to match what City did when they first started using the box formation, but Pep figured out it is more stable with a CB stepping up to create the quartet than having a full back move across and up.


We seem to be trying to recreate what City evolved from using but without the same amount of athletic fast players and without the depth of such players in the key positions to make the system stable.


We also seem to be trying to recreate it whilst wanting our left side to play within the new set up but also playing like it did when we used attacking full backs on both flanks leading to Robertson trying to play in two roles at the same time and trying to play within two very different systems at the same time.

[Craig_H]

But what do we do with him? A generational talent in terms of distribution, a second rate defender, an unproven midfielder.

Play him in midfield and sign a proper RB.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Play him in midfield and sign a proper RB.

Or play him at RB and sign a proper DM.

[baitman]

Or play him at RB and sign a proper DM.

He has turned into a pig of a right back. He will never be the defender he once was.

Even if we try to make excuses...
Henderson not covering the runners, Fabinho has no legs, etc...

Trent, even when he isnt up the pitch and excusabley out of position, oblivious to players behind him, making half arsed attempts, basically looking like a competition winner.
If there was a compilation of his worst bits it would be cringe worthy.

[Doc_Piptorious]

He has turned into a pig of a right back. He will never be the defender he once was.

Even if we try to make excuses...
Henderson not covering the runners, Fabinho has no legs, etc...

Trent, even when he isnt up the pitch and excusabley out of position, oblivious to players behind him, making half arsed attempts, basically looking like a competition winner.
If there was a compilation of his worst bits it would be cringe worthy.

Why not though?

He is only 24. He had one poor season at RB and at least four really good ones.

Unless there are some other issues, be they physical or mental (conscious or otherwise), at play there is no reason that with the right levels of application and hard work he could go on to be an even better attacking right back to what he was.

Maybe he is one of those players that peak in their early 20s and everything after that is down hill, but unless he goes on to have another stinker of a season it is far too early to even consider writing him off as a right back imo.

Granted he is not the most athletic player in terms of physical qualities (something that would hamper him even more as a midfielder), but from the attacking RB position he reads the game so well that it compensates for pace and then some, plus from that position he gets more time on the ball to pick a pass or cross.


And if he is indeed what you said

even when he isnt up the pitch and excusabley out of position, oblivious to players behind him, making half arsed attempts, basically looking like a competition winner.

Then playing like that is more of a liability in a central position than out wide.

[Fierce]

Jacko

Agree with all

He’s one of if not the best right back in world football. He wasn’t last season, because our system fell apart for whatever reason

Get a 2019 Fabinho clone in at DM and reap the whirlwind

[Irishnev]

Jacko

Agree with all

He’s one of if not the best right back in world football. He wasn’t last season, because our system fell apart for whatever reason

Get a 2019 Fabinho clone in at DM and reap the whirlwind

That’s what we’d all like - go back to what we are good at. This inverted full back **** us a new fad which leaves massively dependent on Konate covering the whole right flank. 4-3-3 at full throttle like we used to - if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The process was still good but the players couldn’t do it anymore

[Buzzo]

That’s what we’d all like - go back to what we are good at. This inverted full back **** us a new fad which leaves massively dependent on Konate covering the whole right flank. 4-3-3 at full throttle like we used to - if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The process was still good but the players couldn’t do it anymore

And leaves Robbo exposed in a position he’s not accustomed to, making him the fall guy and this seasons potential “Hendo”.