Chelsea (A) 13/08/23 - 16:30 BST

[Kenneth]

If we could avoid giving the opposition so many one on ones for Ali to save, it would be nice. Chelsea failed to take their chances yesterday, far more than we did, and although there were definitely positives in terms of the early attacking play, the defence looked as wobbly as we thought it might. Thankfully it was Raheem Sterling linking up with James and not someone decent. Fragility at the back will leave us vulnerable against lesser sides with pace up top too. We really really need someone great at sitting deep in front of the back four asap.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agree with Dizzy that there were positives.


The two new guys in the centre looked good, MacAllister moreso.

Our attack looks, in the first 30 mins in particular, that if it gets service if will be good enough to hurt any team.


Klopp hopefully got the using Gakpo as an 8 experiment out of his system.


Salah looked sharp and got an assist.


Diaz got off the mark.

Nunez looked smart when he came on as did Elliot.




The big negative is still the system. It is hampering the three guys at the back and the rest of the midfield just to try and accomodate TAA going central and he is showing he is not good enough (consistently) in midfoield to warrant a team being changed around to suit him.

Nearly all the cock ups yesterday came either through him being flat footed and ball watching , or the team's shape being messed up and unable to reecover from another player's bad pass or mistake because the back line or midfield were all in their covering for TAA slots.

Reece James showed for much of that match what an attacking RB/RWB can look like.

Just go back to four at the back, and tell TAA to motor up and down that right flank. Play without a dedicated DM in the short term (as in the next game) and let MacAllister play as a deep lying playmaker with Jones and Szoboszlai slightly ahead of him.

Put Gakpo, for almost any game he starts, in the striker position or false nine one, and if he is not going into one of those position then out wide is the only onther one for him. No more number 8 stuff. Just play to the strengths of the players you have rather than trying to be clever and put square pegs in round holes.


Let Jota be an impact sub but would have Nunez ahead of him in the pecking order for the ST role.



Still think the XI we started with yesterday would have looked more solid in a 4231, 4411 or a 433 (one of the middle three being Gakpo in the AM role rather than as an 8)


We have the players (whilst still acknowledging the needing of a few additions) right now to be far more balanced and solid than we are showing.

We can continue trying to force the box formation that has players unable to play to their strengths and that catches them out of position many times a game or we can revert to the back four set up that we used with great success for many season with more or less the same defensive options that are used and tested in that defensive set up.

Right now we are making Roberston, VVD and Konate look like lesser players than we know they are.

We are making TAA look a decent player in the middle (at the expense of team balance) rather than putting him back into an attacking RB role from which he can be one of the best in the world.


Think it was Klopp himself who said a season or two back something along the lines of Why would you play the best right back in the world in midfield when he is the best RB in the world. Well think it is time for Jurgen to remember that, put TAA back at RB with instructions not to constantly go into the inverted role and to go back to showing us all just how damn good he is as part of a back four.

[baitman]

Agree with Dizzy that there were positives.


The two new guys in the centre looked good, MacAllister moreso.

Our attack looks, in the first 30 mins in particular, that if it gets service if will be good enough to hurt any team.


Klopp hopefully got the using Gakpo as an 8 experiment out of his system.


Salah looked sharp and got an assist.


Diaz got off the mark.

Nunez looked smart when he came on as did Elliot.




The big negative is still the system. It is hampering the three guys at the back and the rest of the midfield just to try and accomodate TAA going central and he is showing he is not good enough (consistently) in midfoield to warrant a team being changed around to suit him.

Nearly all the cock ups yesterday came either through him being flat footed and ball watching , or the team's shape being messed up and unable to reecover from another player's bad pass or mistake because the back line or midfield were all in their covering for TAA slots.

Reece James showed for much of that match what an attacking RB/RWB can look like.

Just go back to four at the back, and tell TAA to motor up and down that right flank. Play without a dedicated DM in the short term (as in the next game) and let MacAllister play as a deep lying playmaker with Jones and Szoboszlai slightly ahead of him.

Put Gakpo, for almost any game he starts, in the striker position or false nine one, and if he is not going into one of those position then out wide is the only onther one for him. No more number 8 stuff. Just play to the strengths of the players you have rather than trying to be clever and put square pegs in round holes.


Let Jota be an impact sub but would have Nunez ahead of him in the pecking order for the ST role.



Still think the XI we started with yesterday would have looked more solid in a 4231, 4411 or a 433 (one of the middle three being Gakpo in the AM role rather than as an 8)


We have the players (whilst still acknowledging the needing of a few additions) right now to be far more balanced and solid than we are showing.

We can continue trying to force the box formation that has players unable to play to their strengths and that catches them out of position many times a game or we can revert to the back four set up that we used with great success for many season with more or less the same defensive options that are used and tested in that defensive set up.

Right now we are making Roberston, VVD and Konate look like lesser players than we know they are.

We are making TAA look a decent player in the middle (at the expense of team balance) rather than putting him back into an attacking RB role from which he can be one of the best in the world.


Think it was Klopp himself who said a season or two back something along the lines of Why would you play the best right back in the world in midfield when he is the best RB in the world. Well think it is time for Jurgen to remember that, put TAA back at RB with instructions not to constantly go into the inverted role and to go back to showing us all just how damn good he is as part of a back four.

because he is no longer the best right back in the world.
We are constantly trying to accommodate trent, but he doesn't fit at rb or in midfield.
He went down the defensive stuff. What's klopp going to do next, play him as an attacking midfielder...
I'm seriously thinking of selling trent.

[Doc_Piptorious]

because he is no longer the best right back in the world.
We are constantly trying to accommodate trent, but he doesn't fit at rb or in midfield.
He went down the defensive stuff. What's klopp going to do next, play him as an attacking midfielder...
I'm seriously thinking of selling trent.

He is a 24 year old player who should be entering his physical prime. Yes he was poor for most of last season but then so where a lot of other player.

He showed for three or fours season in a row prior to last season just how good he is at RB. No way can I accept that a 24 year old player is so passed it now that he cannot with work and discipline return to being the player he was four out of the past five seasons.

Get his head right (in terms of his positioning on the pitch and role) and get him back into that RB position as an attacking RB rather than an inverted RB, and I think that world class attacking RB is still there.


If however for some reason he is no longer that player or no longer has the ability to operate at those levels at the age of only 24, then yes the club would be better off getting a massive fee whilst his name is still good.


Though I am going to continue to lean towards last season being a downturn in form (coupled with now being played in a position that he seems to be playing in based on hope rather than any hard data or any hard passing of the eye test) and that the Top Tier attacking RB is still there and just needs to be reset in his old position.

[rudedog]

I think Klopps experiment worked for the first 30mins yesterday - we pressed Chelsea high up and they really struggled to cope.

Then for some reason we dropped off them - this allowed Reece James and Chilwell to have a massive influence from the wings. It was only when Reece James went off that we started to get control of the game again (although we didn't take full advantage of this and put the youngster they brought on under enough pressure).

IMO a specialist DM wouldn't have fixed the issues yesterday as Chelsea weren't playing things through the middle, most of their most dangerous attacks came down the wings

[dizzycat]

I think Klopps experiment worked for the first 30mins yesterday - we pressed Chelsea high up and they really struggled to cope.

Then for some reason we dropped off them - this allowed Reece James and Chilwell to have a massive influence from the wings. It was only when Reece James went off that we started to get control of the game again (although we didn't take full advantage of this and put the youngster they brought on under enough pressure).

IMO a specialist DM wouldn't have fixed the issues yesterday as Chelsea weren't playing things through the middle, most of their most dangerous attacks came down the wings

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think Klopps experiment worked for the first 30mins yesterday - we pressed Chelsea high up and they really struggled to cope.

Then for some reason we dropped off them - this allowed Reece James and Chilwell to have a massive influence from the wings. It was only when Reece James went off that we started to get control of the game again (although we didn't take full advantage of this and put the youngster they brought on under enough pressure).

IMO a specialist DM wouldn't have fixed the issues yesterday as Chelsea weren't playing things through the middle, most of their most dangerous attacks came down the wings

True but the box system is seeing us leaving huge spaces in the RB and LB positions as TAA does not get back into a defensive position quickly and the right flank then has either a big empty space or Konate shutting across trying to cover RB and RCB on his own which leaves speace.


Or the back three all move acorss with Robertson going into the LCB slot meaning our LB position becomes a big empty space to run into.


From what I can see the box formation is screwing any sort of defensive stability and solidity we might have and we are relying on physicality/pace to cover the gaps.

We seem totally reactive now in defensive terms rather than being that smooth proactive defensive unit that cut off channels before balls get played or that intercepted a ball long before a tackle or challenge was needed to defend the goal.

[Assassin]

True but the box system is seeing us leaving huge spaces in the RB and LB positions as TAA does not get back into a defensive position quickly and the right flank then has either a big empty space or Konate shutting across trying to cover RB and RCB on his own which leaves speace.


Or the back three all move acorss with Robertson going into the LCB slot meaning our LB position becomes a big empty space to run into.


From what I can see the box formation is screwing any sort of defensive stability and solidity we might have and we are relying on physicality/pace to cover the gaps.

We seem totally reactive now in defensive terms rather than being that smooth proactive defensive unit that cut off channels before balls get played or that intercepted a ball long before a tackle or challenge was needed to defend the goal.

They were having more success on the left side yesterday. The little t-rex was in the space in front of Robertsen causing all kinds of chaos

[Kenneth]

They pushed chillwell way up high, like a proper left winger and played three at the back for large parts of the match, particularly second half. If in doubt, overload Trent. It was weird that Gallagher was playing the deeper midfield role with enzo fernandez pushing into space behind Mac Allister, and we had Gakpo coming narrow to try and track him leaving all of the space for James and sterling. We then dropped Diaz back to help cover that side and we conceded ground and possession. All very negative. A more defensive minded midfielder than Mac allister would definitely have helped out imo, our fullbacks could have concentrated on showing sterling, chillwell, James the touch line knowing they had more cover inside.

[dizzycat]

I think we all see the problem. I also think it is exacerbated because we are conceding possession too much and too easily. The system is ok when we have the ball, when we don't have the ball we are one mistake away from conceding.

[BobTheCharmer]

Why the **** don't we play 5 3 2? It would automatically release trent and robbo to do less defensive work and do more attacking. Matip central and he can bring the ball out which he likes to do. This fixation with 4 3 3 will ultimately cost klopp his job I reckon.

[Fuzzy]

I missed the game because of a gig. Can someone give me a short recap of our infividual performances? Particularly interested in the new signings and Elliott, Jones and Doak. Thanks

[Kenneth]

Why the **** don't we play 5 3 2? It would automatically release trent and robbo to do less defensive work and do more attacking. Matip central and he can bring the ball out which he likes to do. This fixation with 4 3 3 will ultimately cost klopp his job I reckon.

I don’t know, although we’re only one injury away from that not being possible either.

[BobTheCharmer]

I don’t know, although we’re only one injury away from that not being possible either.

True, although Phillips is still hanging about isn't he?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Why the **** don't we play 5 3 2? It would automatically release trent and robbo to do less defensive work and do more attacking. Matip central and he can bring the ball out which he likes to do. This fixation with 4 3 3 will ultimately cost klopp his job I reckon.

But we do not play with a 433.


We have been going 3223 for the final two or three months of last season, all through pre season and again yesterday.


Also is we go 532 now, we have to bench three from Salah, Nunez, Gakpo, Jota and Diaz. Though to be fair four of them probably could fit into that set up well enough, Diaz would be very much the odd man out as do not think he would suit a CF or ST role.


We would also need to have gotten more back up in for the CB roles if 532 was on the cards because no way are we going through a season playing three from VVD, Konate, Matip or Gomez week in week out without at least two of them being out injured at the same time.


Though last season I would have gone 532 at times given how many players were out of form and how leaky our back line was.