Chelsea (A) 13/08/23 - 16:30 BST

[Kenneth]

Klopp seems to be playing himself at the moment

Every manager loses the plot eventually... I hope its not his time... but there are a few signs with the weird selection today and awful formation preseason, selling key players with no replacements.

I was saying last season that personnel wasn’t our only issue. I can’t recall a manger so rigid with the shape of the team, not since the olden days of 442. Whoever is available for selection, they have to fit the shape at their expense. And the shape is looking pretty dated, particularly as the intensity of press it was based on is also a thing of the past.

[Craig_H]

Concerning performance. As soon as they equalised, our mentality went and we seemed to lose our heads and our confidence. Overall lucky to take a point.

I can’t understand why we have so little tenacity or aggression. Chelsea were so comfortable in possession because there was never any pressure on the ball. It’s mad to say this on the first game but we looked tired and like we had no legs or energy. It was so easy for them to move the ball and keep it, playing how they wanted with little or no pressure on the man in possession.


On the contrary, when we had it, we couldn’t keep it and gave it away with criminal consistency.

We need 2 athletic, powerful and energetic midfielders. Momo Sissoko in his prime would walk into this team and he wasn’t even an elite player.

Diaz was a positive though, dynamic and committed opponents, made things happen.

And much as i have my doubts about Harvey Elliott, when he, Doak & Nunez came on, those 3 produced more energy, tenacity and intensity (in terms of pressing and chasing down) than the rest of the team had between them.

The other positive relates to the fairly simple formula for a side that’s looking to finish in the top 4 - beat the dross & when it comes to teams who’ll be competing with you for top 4 - go to their place and don’t lose. Beat them at home,

We went to Stamford Bridge and took a point, which isn’t too bad.

But the performance level and energy levels were so poor. If this doesn’t improve (whether that’s via new signings or whatever), we ain’t finishing in the top 4 this season either.

[Venton]

Concerning performance. As soon as they equalised, our mentality went and we seemed to lose our heads and our confidence. Overall lucky to take a point.

I can’t understand why we have so little tenacity or aggression. Chelsea were so comfortable in possession because there was never any pressure on the ball. It’s mad to say this on the first game but we looked tired and like we had no legs or energy. It was so easy for them to move the ball and keep it, playing how they wanted with little or no pressure on the man in possession.


On the contrary, when we had it, we couldn’t keep it and gave it away with criminal consistency.

We need 2 athletic, powerful and energetic midfielders. Momo Sissoko in his prime would walk into this team and he wasn’t even an elite player.

Diaz was a positive though, dynamic and committed opponents, made things happen.

And much as i have my doubts about Harvey Elliott, when he, Doak & Nunez came on, those 3 produced more energy, tenacity and intensity (in terms of pressing and chasing down) than the rest of the team had between them.

The other positive relates to the fairly simple formula for a side that’s looking to finish in the top 4 - beat the dross & when it comes to teams who’ll be competing with you for top 4 - go to their place and don’t lose. Beat them at home,

We went to Stamford Bridge and took a point, which isn’t too bad.

But the performance level and energy levels were so poor. If this doesn’t improve (whether that’s via new signings or whatever), we ain’t finishing in the top 4 this season either.

When a system works you have to work less because everyone is working with each other, the burden is generally shared. When it doesn't you're all running around expending energy and being less than the sum of your parts. If our system is the problem - our at least our players' understanding of the system - then I'm not sure getting engines in there is going to make that much difference. I think we ran Fabinho into the ground over the last couple of seasons because he was carrying all that weight.

[Venton]

I was saying last season that personnel wasn’t our only issue. I can’t recall a manger so rigid with the shape of the team, not since the olden days of 442. Whoever is available for selection, they have to fit the shape at their expense. And the shape is looking pretty dated, particularly as the intensity of press it was based on is also a thing of the past.

Yes, and also when gegenpressing started it had a bit of the shock of the new about it. We overwhelmed teams and it was great to watch. I don't think there is a team in the premier league now who is going to get caught cold by the press. They're expecting it and have developed some pretty clear counter-defences. Can Klopp change it enough is the question?

[kingfunk]

What I find most confusing is the sudden loss of composure early doors, like the flick of a switch the mentality monsters turn into timid mice, looks this has not been addressed from the start of last season.

Also TAAs comments post match, basically confirming that (because it was 1-1 in a away game) they stopped trying to win the game in the second half, wanted to focus on securing the draw instead… Roy Keane standing beside him thinking WTF… not really sure what to make of that tbh, all fun and games until the opposition scores… luckily they didn’t

[danperkins]

Until we do get the right personnel, we are never going to know if this system works. Currently we don't have the the players necessary to pull it off and the current players haven't a clue what do in this setup. We are short at least 3 players.

[danperkins]

What I find most confusing is the sudden loss of composure early doors, like the flick of a switch the mentality monsters turn into timid mice, looks this has not been addressed from the start of last season.

Also TAAs comments post match, basically confirming that (because it was 1-1 in a away game) they stopped trying to win the game in the second half, wanted to focus on securing the draw instead… Roy Keane standing beside him thinking WTF… not really sure what to make of that tbh, all fun and games until the opposition scores… luckily they didn’t

Imo we are nowhere near physically what we used to be and the lads know it and the lads also know that the opposition know it.

As for Trent, well we need a new right full sick to death of us conceding because he has no defensive awareness whatsoever.

[Venton]

What I find most confusing is the sudden loss of composure early doors, like the flick of a switch the mentality monsters turn into timid mice, looks this has not been addressed from the start of last season.

Also TAAs comments post match, basically confirming that (because it was 1-1 in a away game) they stopped trying to win the game in the second half, wanted to focus on securing the draw instead… Roy Keane standing beside him thinking WTF… not really sure what to make of that tbh, all fun and games until the opposition scores… luckily they didn’t

We had that all last season. We're fine until it doesn't work properly, then there is no plan B, no adaptability when it doesn't work. We've relied in the past on having great individuals and world class players in attack to get us through, but that's not the case any more.

Last season when we beat Utd 7-0 it was glorious but they had the better of the game before we scored, and missed a couple of great chances. I wonder what would have happened if they'd scored them. I don't think it would have been 7-2.

[Craig_H]

When a system works you have to work less because everyone is working with each other, the burden is generally shared. When it doesn't you're all running around expending energy and being less than the sum of your parts. If our system is the problem - our at least our players' understanding of the system - then I'm not sure getting engines in there is going to make that much difference. I think we ran Fabinho into the ground over the last couple of seasons because he was carrying all that weight.

There’s a lot of intricate stuff to it but the basics of not closing down opponents when in possession and putting pressure on them is fundamental. It used to be what we were best at. But we’re a million miles off that now. And if it doesn’t change, we’ll be nowhere near the top four by the end of the season.

[spud_gun]

The concern is is that we've had a summer to work on these deficiencies and they're still as evident today as they were last season.

It's beyond worrying

[danperkins]

The concern is is that we've had a summer to work on these deficiencies and they're still as evident today as they were last season.

It's beyond worrying

[Venton]

There’s a lot of intricate stuff to it but the basics of not closing down opponents when in possession and putting pressure on them is fundamental. It used to be what we were best at. But we’re a million miles off that now. And if it doesn’t change, we’ll be nowhere near the top four by the end of the season.

Oh absolutely. When we were in our pomp everyone knew where each other were, we pressed in concert blocking off outlets, midfielders (and Bobby) stepped in and out as necessary to strangle the opposition. It all seems to be individuals at the moment, and so easy to play against.

[Slinky Skills]

There’s a lot of intricate stuff to it but the basics of not closing down opponents when in possession and putting pressure on them is fundamental. It used to be what we were best at. But we’re a million miles off that now. And if it doesn’t change, we’ll be nowhere near the top four by the end of the season.

It's a bit early in the season to be issuing claims like this. At least give the team a chance to develop.

[Craig_H]

It's a bit early in the season to be issuing claims like this. At least give the team a chance to develop.

Not sure what you mean by “claims like this”.

But as far as developing is concerned, there’s a lot of areas in football where the team needs to develop. Workrate isn’t one of them.

[Kenneth]

**** Bournemouth next week and the season will be up and running and an opening day away dram will be totally fine. If we don’t do that then we can justify feeling worried.