Florian Wirtz - Welcome to LFC

[danperkins]

A scapegoat is a person or group unfairly blamed for the misfortunes or wrongdoing of others, taking on unmerited blame and negative treatment.

Seems pretty apt when people were ignoring the fact that Grav was out, Mac unfit, Konate brutal, new full backs, new system, instead saying we were so open because they told us all along that Wirtz can't play AM for us.

Hardly a controversial statement.

How many people said that? I might have missed it but I certainly don't think it's a general consensus, even among the people that have said some negative things about Wirtz attacking performances thus far.

I got the impression that losing both fullbacks & having absences in the CM was in the first few games was a pretty obvious reason why we've looked shakey defensively & if anyone was being singled out that it was maybe you could point to Kerkez & Konate? I laughed not to insult but I was engaged in a back and forth about hyperbolic posts & imo saying Wirtz has been made a scapegoat for our defensive woes.. well it is certainly up there imo.

[danperkins]

Not was, Mark3 is a cool guy.

One might go as far as to say that he is the most beloved Mark on the site.

Indeed Mr. Piptorious, a fine observation indeed. Jolly good sir

[Mark79]

Those comments from just one post, you picked from the match thread and were in response to another poster.

This is so mild and kinda factual imo. You ignored the positive aspect at the start and didn't mention Kenneth was referring to his 'dismal passing', not him being dismal in general.

Again, this isn't a general comment about Wirtz either but more of what we have seen 'so far' since playing for LFC and unfortunately it is a 120m quid player that has 0 goals, 0 assists & is struggling with the physicality in games & we have Everton in the derby next which will literally be our most physical & demanding game of the season.

A little context makes it look a lot different. I gave you two hyperbolic responses from the actual thread & you gave me two words, with no context from another thread

Those were words that were used in relation to his performance.

OK, it was from the match thread. So what? It was part of the same debate.

The point was, anyone can pick a couple of posts/comments to distort the overall tone of the argument.

The responses to Kenneth's posts were done with fair argument and no losing of ****.

The reality is, the was no outrage either in terms of the actual discussion of Wirtz. Mostly just fair and reasoned counter argument.

If you object to a couple of responses you (which seem to be more about your relationship with those posters), then fair enough. But don't lump it in with the actual discussion.

[Mark79]

Not was, Mark3 is a cool guy.

One might go as far as to say that he is the most beloved Mark on the site.

At least there's one Mark that's loved on this site.

Try finding a Doc or Dan on here that anyone likes

[danperkins]

Those were words that were used in relation to his performance.

OK, it was from the match thread. So what? It was part of the same debate.

The point was, anyone can pick a couple of posts/comments to distort the overall tone of the argument.

The responses to Kenneth's posts were done with fair argument and no losing of ****.

The reality is, the was no outrage either in terms of the actual discussion of Wirtz. Mostly just fair and reasoned counter argument.

If you object to a couple of responses you (which seem to be more about your relationship with those posters), then fair enough. But don't lump it in with the actual discussion.

Some fair points about letting a extreme few posts dictate the general tone... I concede that & in fairness I'm guilty of saying about my posts being lumped in with others on various threads on here for years, so maybe not good for me to do the same in this thread

So in regards to actual discussion which is now between myself and yourself, we seem to have a bit of a separation in what both of us consider what is 'mild' criticism & what is 'over blown'. I just can't see how pointing out poor passing, getting bullied physically & being disappointing in our marquee signing so far is over blown at all. I get how you can disagree with it but I feel those comments are pretty beige on the whole criticism scale which is ultimately what we are talking about here. We bought this guy to be magic, not just tidy or to make up the numbers but to rack up numbers and effect/win us games, unfortunately those are the standards expected & the leeway to hit the ground running isn't as much as a normie signing. This literally is the hottest young prospect in European football we are talking about so if he doesn't up his game and we start to lose a few, the focus will shift onto him imo.

It's certainly not an indictment on Wirtz in general & it has been mentioned multiple times it's early days, the setup isn't there, the players are bedding in, we aren't playing well... so nobody is even remotely writing him off or going to town on him imo. I see the critiques are very mild, you don't. Can't go anywhere from there I suppose.

[danperkins]

At least there's one Mark that's loved on this site.

Try finding a Doc or Dan on here that anyone likes

Jeez what has Daniel 7 ever done to you

[Doc_Piptorious]

At least there's one Mark that's loved on this site.

Try finding a Doc or Dan on here that anyone likes

Oh 79 is so bitter

[Irishnev]

Opens thread

Wirtz has been pretty ****e so far hasn’t he

Closes thread

[BG1973]

Can you imagine if pub chat went down like this madhouse. I love it, bunch of ego sensitive schmucks

[Mark79]

Some fair points about letting a extreme few posts dictate the general tone... I concede that & in fairness I'm guilty of saying about my posts being lumped in with others on various threads on here for years, so maybe not good for me to do the same in this thread

So in regards to actual discussion which is now between myself and yourself, we seem to have a bit of a separation in what both of us consider what is 'mild' criticism & what is 'over blown'. I just can't see how pointing out poor passing, getting bullied physically & being disappointing in our marquee signing so far is over blown at all. I get how you can disagree with it but I feel those comments are pretty beige on the whole criticism scale which is ultimately what we are talking about here. We bought this guy to be magic, not just tidy or to make up the numbers but to rack up numbers and effect/win us games, unfortunately those are the standards expected & the leeway to hit the ground running isn't as much as a normie signing. This literally is the hottest young prospect in European football we are talking about so if he doesn't up his game and we start to lose a few, the focus will shift onto him imo.

It's certainly not an indictment on Wirtz in general & it has been mentioned multiple times it's early days, the setup isn't there, the players are bedding in, we aren't playing well... so nobody is even remotely writing him off or going to town on him imo. I see the critiques are very mild, you don't. Can't go anywhere from there I suppose.

I think dismal passing is a fairly strong criticism of a footballer, especially a 10. But also i just don't agree that was a fair appraisal of his passing in the game.

And I think 'more liability then benefit' is a harsh criticism, whatever way you read it.

Aside from that though I completely accept the gist of what you're saying. He hasn't pulled up any trees yet.

But despite the fee and the hype, he's still just a young player adapting to a new league. Last night he was solid, but that can't be the benchmark for him. He needs to go much higher. But I thought he showed encouraging signs of things falling into place.

[Mark79]

Jeez what has Daniel 7 ever done to you

Ah, but that's Daniel. Plus he has nunber in his name, which is how we identify the best posters

[Assassin]

I think dismal passing is a fairly strong criticism of a footballer, especially a 10. But also i just don't agree that was a fair appraisal of his passing in the game.

And I think 'more liability then benefit' is a harsh criticism, whatever way you read it.

Aside from that though I completely accept the gist of what you're saying. He hasn't pulled up any trees yet.

But despite the fee and the hype, he's still just a young player adapting to a new league. Last night he was solid, but that can't be the benchmark for him. He needs to go much higher. But I thought he showed encouraging signs of things falling into place.

The fact it describes it as dismal passing tells you all you need to know with regard to its footballing knowledge

[Mark79]

The fact it describes it as dismal passing tells you all you need to know with regard to its footballing knowledge

'It'

He's still a person

[danperkins]

I think dismal passing is a fairly strong criticism of a footballer, especially a 10. But also i just don't agree that was a fair appraisal of his passing in the game.

And I think 'more liability then benefit' is a harsh criticism, whatever way you read it.

Aside from that though I completely accept the gist of what you're saying. He hasn't pulled up any trees yet.

But despite the fee and the hype, he's still just a young player adapting to a new league. Last night he was solid, but that can't be the benchmark for him. He needs to go much higher. But I thought he showed encouraging signs of things falling into place.

we are all rooting for him and hopefully his class will shine through and he'll smash the bollox out of it

[Angryred]

Ah, but that's Daniel. Plus he has nunber in his name, which is how we identify the best posters

Ah, I see...sorry for your predicament then!