Brendan Rodgers

[DannyMan2006]

I've never been an IFA and this is football not the stock market and past performance is definitely an indicator.

We were rubbish in Europe in his first season and were knocked out during a good domestic run and this year we got knocked out at the same stage during a good domestic run. On top of that all three of Rodgers seasons we have struggled to find out feet in the first half of the season - see stats someone else posted. Everything points to us struggling in a European qualifying round early in the season.

I'm not saying things can't be different, but until he breaks the pattern why would you assume anything else? In three years nothing has changed, maybe it will be 4th year lucky.

His first season? We were unlucky to be knocked out by Zenit who are a good team. I fancy they'll go far in the Europa this season.

[DannyMan2006]

We were knocked out of Europe in the middle of our recent good form. Our permances in Europe haven't correlated with our domestic form like you'd expect.

We need third this season. If you think back to previous regimes (excluding Hodgeson) then you just assume you'd get through the qualification and into the group, I was always confident in those sorts of games, but I don't think we have any reason to have that kind of self assuredness.

Hopefully it'll click for us in Europe next season and these worries will become a thing of the past.

We were lucky to get past Standard Liege under Rafa one year. It's certainly not a given making the top 4, particularly as our co efficient is likely not that great.

And Besiktas is the only time we've been knocked out when we were in good form. And as I've already said, he rested key players and whilst it was a strong side, we could all see where our priorities were.

[DannyMan2006]

Besiktas:

Quite clearly the Europa was not the priority. He started Sturridge in both games to get game time, yet had him on the bench in the league. He rested who is probably our best player atm in Coutinho for the away game, subbing him in the home game. He started Balotelli in the away tie who I can't remember last time he started in the league. He rested Henderson who is our key CM, admittedly he had a knock, but as shown v City could've played if needed.

Contrast that with Besiktas who treated the game like it was a World Cup final. Now if you want to win things you can't go at them with half measures, but as I said previously it was clear that the City game had priority. Had Besiktas been in the CL, I imagine you'd have seen a different team and a very different outcome. Anyhow, despite all that we created enough chances to bury them first half but fluffed it.

[captainfog]

Besiktas:

Quite clearly the Europa was not the priority. He started Sturridge in both games to get game time, yet had him on the bench in the league. He rested who is probably our best player atm in Coutinho for the away game, subbing him in the home game. He started Balotelli in the away tie who I can't remember last time he started in the league. He rested Henderson who is our key CM, admittedly he had a knock, but as shown v City could've played if needed.

Contrast that with Besiktas who treated the game like it was a World Cup final. Now if you want to win things you can't go at them with half measures, but as I said previously it was clear that the City game had priority. Had Besiktas been in the CL, I imagine you'd have seen a different team and a very different outcome. Anyhow, despite all that we created enough chances to bury them first half but fluffed it.

That's fine, but with better in game management we would have qualified. So all of that is kind of irrelevant. At the moment Rodgers has a blind spot in Europe.

And Henderson was injured, he wasn't rested.

[captainfog]

We were lucky to get past Standard Liege under Rafa one year. It's certainly not a given making the top 4, particularly as our co efficient is likely not that great.

And Besiktas is the only time we've been knocked out when we were in good form. And as I've already said, he rested key players and whilst it was a strong side, we could all see where our priorities were.

We might have been lucky to go through, but prior to the round most of us would have been confident of winning. And we did.

[DannyMan2006]

That's fine, but with better in game management we would have qualified. So all of that is kind of irrelevant. At the moment Rodgers has a blind spot in Europe.

And Henderson was injured, he wasn't rested.

Hendo could've played if needed with an injection, which is what he had v City.

Tbh second half I wasn't too sure exactly what he could've done. We were being over run in midfield but had no midfielders on the bench other than a young kid. We struggled in midfield because both our CB's who'd been key in bringing the ball out weren't there. Sakho was injured (much maligned but stats show great distribution) and Can was in midfield (as we had no other midfielders).

So we had Lovren making his first start in ages and Toure getting some minutes after his return from International duty. Only Skrtel from the usual backline. We had a new partnership in midfield in Can & Allen, and we had a half fit Sturridge and Mario who clearly isn't first choice.

As I say, we had a go, but it was very much a half hearted approach to it.

[Lecter]

What can you get for £11m? You get Borini.

Even 3 years ago the options were very limited in that price range. Considering we weren't in Champions League, were in transition with limited budgets, he was brought in to supplement what we had. Who else was realistically available?

If he goes for free, I'd say it would be more of a disappointment than a catastrophe.

That summer the following transfers took place into the Premier League

Villa bought Benteke for £7m
Arsenal bought Podolski for £11m (paid £13m for Giroud)
Jay Rodriguez went to Southampton for £6m

3 months later we ourselves bought Sturridge for £1m more than we paid for Borini

Now I am not saying all of these are better players than Borini, but these are the type of deals he has to be compared against

I dont think Borini was in anyway shape or form value for money and that money certainly could have been spent better

I havent bothered searching for European deals I am sure other deals around Europe would compare more than favourably with £11m for Borini

[Lecter]

Hendo could've played if needed with an injection, which is what he had v City.

Tbh second half I wasn't too sure exactly what he could've done. We were being over run in midfield but had no midfielders on the bench other than a young kid. We struggled in midfield because both our CB's who'd been key in bringing the ball out weren't there. Sakho was injured (much maligned but stats show great distribution) and Can was in midfield (as we had no other midfielders).

So we had Lovren making his first start in ages and Toure getting some minutes after his return from International duty. Only Skrtel from the usual backline. We had a new partnership in midfield in Can & Allen, and we had a half fit Sturridge and Mario who clearly isn't first choice.

As I say, we had a go, but it was very much a half hearted approach to it.

I thought Lallana should have come on earlier. I was astonished when the commentators suggested Borini was about to come on (they scored and Brendan thought better of it)

Once Lallana came on we seemed to look a bit tighter

[Mark79]

Add Bony to Swansea for £12m in 2013 to that list above

[RedReet]

If Borini had of f*cked off in the summer, he'd have been a great signing for us.

[DannyMan2006]

We might have been lucky to go through, but prior to the round most of us would have been confident of winning. And we did.

What difference does confidence make? I'm merely highlighting that it's not exactly a forgone conclusion if you finish fourth - which is what you were saying anyway? I think the only difference is you say it's difficult because we have Rodgers, whilst I say it's difficult whoever you have dependant on the draw.

[dom9]

Benteke, meh. He only seems to play well against us.

Podolski, meh. He's been a flop.

Rodriguez, I don't know about.

Sturridge, bargain. The definitive example of a gamble which paid off. And it was our gamble.

[DannyMan2006]

I thought Lallana should have come on earlier. I was astonished when the commentators suggested Borini was about to come on (they scored and Brendan thought better of it)

Once Lallana came on we seemed to look a bit tighter

Lallana could have. Fact he was gonna bring Borini on shows he was trying to blag it. I don't think for one minute he wanted to get knocked out as some managers do. But he clearly wasn't playing his best hand, which to me spoke volumes of how it was being prioritised.

And is why I'm arguing with Foggy that we can't read too much into the Besiktas tie to see Rodgers is useless in Europe.

[dom9]

And don't forget the Jenkins factor in the Borini case.

[Lecter]

Benteke, meh. He only seems to play well against us.

Podolski, meh. He's been a flop.

Rodriguez, I don't know about.

Sturridge, bargain. The definitive example of a gamble which paid off. And it was our gamble.

And Borini has been a roaring ****ing success as well