Steven Gerrard

[Craig_H]

Minor off topic digression which had the potential to go very wrong removed. I take it everybody concurs with that decision? Good, so, moving on...

Kenny, but Gerrard is and was a very special player too.

What was the off topic digression about? I forget.

[MrMichael]

The point of removing the previous conversation was not to have it recounted again straight away Craig. The fact that it was off topic alone is enough. Please, nothing bad or salacious actually happened but I thought it best to just do a minor rewind in the interests of plain sailing. Just trust me, its all fine, now lets get back on topic eh?

[Craig_H]

Of course MrM, your wish is my command.

So, Gerrard needs to be starting tonight, i hope he's fit enough to play 90.

[kev776]

Get back on topic please !! (Craigs moan about secret messages)

[dww]

Came across some interesting stats recently comparing Xavi, who is considered by many "the King of Passes" and seen one of all time greats and our Stevie.

Well these are stats for both players:


Gerrard
556 games, 140 goals and 83 assists


Xavi
577 games, 58 goals and 67 assists


So who is better and more productive passer and better overall player in the world football..

A/ That's not Xavi's primary function. He's the conductor of the orchestra - at least as akin to Alonso as Gerrard. I tend to disagree about this point but I think deeper midfield play is horribly undervalues in this country. Players like Carrick don't get the credit they deserve and this seems to me an extension of that mind set.

B/ Surely in a team game the ultimate measure of productivity should be team performance? I think it is pretty hard to argue that Xavi has been one of the most important players in the most successful club and international teams of the last decade or so.

[cream]

Gerrard showed in half an hour what our midfielders and wingers have failed to do in half a season.

[Daniel 7]

As Neville said "What I saw w-was ab ab ab absolute magnificence"

[Mostar]

A/ That's not Xavi's primary function. He's the conductor of the orchestra - at least as akin to Alonso as Gerrard. I tend to disagree about this point but I think deeper midfield play is horribly undervalues in this country. Players like Carrick don't get the credit they deserve and this seems to me an extension of that mind set.

B/ Surely in a team game the ultimate measure of productivity should be team performance? I think it is pretty hard to argue that Xavi has been one of the most important players in the most successful club and international teams of the last decade or so.

A) I think the point of that comparison, which by the way wasn't mine, wasn't to compare them not in terms of their positions on the pitch but to statistically demonstrate that Stevie is much better passer than Xavi by looking at the number of assists and that to me is the part of the game that Stevie doesn't get enough of credit.

B) Also I think the person that came up with this comparison also wanted to say that Xavi, without the doubt one of the best players in the world, is fortunate enough to play for a team like Barca (surrounded with other world class footballers) and that helped raise his game and his impact on team and one cannot say the same thing for Stevie, who in the better team should get as much recognition if not even more.

[cream]

I don't think Xavi could've done what Gerrard has done for Liverpool. On the flip side, I don't think Gerrard could have done what Xavi has done for Barca. It's a pointless debate.

[Rabiosa]

A/ That's not Xavi's primary function. He's the conductor of the orchestra - at least as akin to Alonso as Gerrard. I tend to disagree about this point but I think deeper midfield play is horribly undervalues in this country. Players like Carrick don't get the credit they deserve and this seems to me an extension of that mind set.

B/ Surely in a team game the ultimate measure of productivity should be team performance? I think it is pretty hard to argue that Xavi has been one of the most important players in the most successful club and international teams of the last decade or so.

In my opinion Xavi is Spain's best player ever, if it wasn't for him, he would never of won Euro or World cup. Hard to compare with Gerrard though

[cream]

If you use the same criteria then Scholes stats are much better than Xavi's as well.

[Craig_H]

Scholes started as a striker though.

[Neil Young]

Minor off topic digression which had the potential to go very wrong removed. I take it everybody concurs with that decision? Good, so, moving on...

Kenny, but Gerrard is and was a very special player too.

What was the off topic digression about? I forget.

The point of removing the previous conversation was not to have it recounted again straight away Craig. The fact that it was off topic alone is enough. Please, nothing bad or salacious actually happened but I thought it best to just do a minor rewind in the interests of plain sailing. Just trust me, its all fine, now lets get back on topic eh?

Of course MrM, your wish is my command.

So, Gerrard needs to be starting tonight, i hope he's fit enough to play 90.

The Origins of World War I

[kev776]

Archduke Ferdicraig shot by Mr Michael in Sarajverpool or something like that.

[dww]

A) I think the point of that comparison, which by the way wasn't mine, wasn't to compare them not in terms of their positions on the pitch but to statistically demonstrate that Stevie is much better passer than Xavi by looking at the number of assists and that to me is the part of the game that Stevie doesn't get enough of credit.

My point in that light would be - direct assists is only an incomplete measure of what being a good passer let alone a good player is.

I really think the difference in roles makes the comparison unhelpful (in which regard I agree with Rabiosa).

B) Also I think the person that came up with this comparison also wanted to say that Xavi, without the doubt one of the best players in the world, is fortunate enough to play for a team like Barca (surrounded with other world class footballers) and that helped raise his game and his impact on team and one cannot say the same thing for Stevie, who in the better team should get as much recognition if not even more.

I'm not convinced that the argument follows. It is possible but we have all seen players fail to step up from great performances in a weak team to fail to make good ones at a top team. I'm not saying that Gerrard would not have stepped up but it is unknowable. That said no one, at least on this board, doubts that Gerrard is one of the better players in the world.