Rafa Watch

[Red_Polo]

Xabi left the club when we had horrendous owners and a boss who he'd had running disagreement with. Torres has left the club as it is finally getting back on its feet and filled with optimism, and broke his word by joining a rival despite the new owners. Massive difference. I don't think he deserved the vitriol some do, but he is a bit of a tosser for the way this has come about.

As I said. It isn't any big difference between Xabi and Torres.

I said there is a massive difference.

I don't expect any player to serve this club with complete disregard as to what extent that means sacrificing their personal career. What I do expect is a reasonable level of loyalty with respect to the way they position themselves as part of the club.

So if a player like Xabi presents themselves as someone who has a lot of love for the club, the fans and the city itself but leaves because things don't go quite as they want, and does that by leaving to join a foreign club for a good fee with reasonable notice, then I can't seen reason to be all that pissed at him.

A player like Torres who presented themselves as someone completely devoted to the club, constantly coming out with soundbites detailing his affection for it thus enhancing his own status along the way and even telling people he would never play for another English club again, I expect a little more from. Yet we have been respected far less by him.

Torres has gone at an infuriating time that is difficult to comprehend, has made some ****tish comments since leaving, and to go to another English club. One that has hit poor form, that as things stand are as close in points to being below us than they are to leading the table, and more importantly one that has regularly been in direct competition for trophies with us and will continue to be in the future.

The difference is ****ing enormous.

[Kenneth]

The difference is colossal.

Do I win?

[Craig_H]

As I said. It isn't any big difference between Xabi and Torres.

I said there is a massive difference.

[Red_Polo]

The difference is colossal.

Do I win?

As I said, you don't are the winner.

:brainexplosion:

[cled the red]

Xabi put in his transfer request the day before he was sold. That means that we had around 25 days or so to find a replacement. Not sometime in July.

One question. Why didn't he put in a transfer request the first week of the window? The only logical answer is....money. He wanted his share. He didn't care a bit if it had been easier to sell him and more time to find a replacement.

Real used Xabi and told him to put pressure on the club to sell him on the cheap. First they made a bid of around £23m, then they put in a lower bid and at the same time Xabi allegedly pressured the club to sell him.

Rafa wanted £30m or it wouldn't be a deal so in the end Xabi was forced to put in a transfer request or else he wouldn't been sold so we could get our £30m. Less than a month to find a replacement and only very little money that we could use of the £30m.

How many realistic replacements left with 25 days left of the window? We had something like £6m in the bank by the look of it to sign a replacement with. We signed Aquilani in instalments, the first being £4.5m and then we signed Kyrgiakos for £1.5m. The rest of the money? We had to pay the interest on our loan.

Say two or three realistic replacements. If we had sold Xabi at the start of the window then it would probably been at least 10 realistic replacements. Now some of them had already been sold etc.

So because of Xabi's greed we ended up with very few realistic options. The angel Xabi can't be greedy can he Surely he can't

So why didn't Xabi put in a transfer request the first week of June?

He put his transfer request on 30th July which makes it sometime in, er, July!!!!

It also gave Liverpool 33 days to find a replacement not 25 days - Torres gave Liverpool 4 days to find someone, big big difference.

[kris90210]

He put his transfer request on 30th July which makes it sometime in, er, July!!!!

It also gave Liverpool 33 days to find a replacement not 25 days - Torres gave Liverpool 4 days to find someone, big big difference.

Exactly Cled

Please address this point Arn. And can you also please tell us where you get your information from??

[Neil Young]

I don't think the differences between Alonso's situation and Torres's is all that great. They both have gone to clubs with a better chance in the short term of winning trophies and no doubt get paid a lot more money too.

Yes, there are differences but I think it's easy to overstate them. To fans maybe they're significant, but to professional footballers I doubt they're of any great relevance whatsoever.

[kris90210]

I don't think the differences between Alonso's situation and Torres's is all that great. They both have gone to clubs with a better chance in the short term of winning trophies and no doubt get paid a lot more money too.

Yes, there are differences but I think it's easy to overstate them. To fans maybe they're significant, but to professional footballers I doubt they're of any great relevance whatsoever.

I rarely find myself disagreeing with your posts, but this is one such occasion! I'll mark it down in the old diary is it.

Torres ****ed us. In the same way that Mascherano ****ed us. He left us with virtually no time to replace him and essentially forced his exit through. As others have said, if Torres had said at the beginning of the window that he felt he needed to move on and put in a transfer request that would have been far better for the club. It would still have been a bitter pill to swallow but I think most of us would have accepted his decision.

In that scenario we would have had a lot more time to identify a replacement and to negotiate with clubs. He gave us 4 days. In addition, he left for a rival club. He always intimated that we were his English club, and that he would not play for a rival. This obviously endeared him to the fans, and he enjoyed the status comments like that won him. By the same token, he has to take it on the chin when all that talk proved to be hollow.

Now contrast this situation to Xabi Alonso. How many of us on here slag him off for leaving us? You can count them on one hand. Arn would put that down to him being good at PR (the cunt ). I would put it down to the fact that the situations are poles apart.

Alonso made it clear to the club that he wished to move on almost straight after the season ended. The club forced him into making an official transfer request - which dragged things out a little. But by the time his transfer was settled we still had roughly a month to find a replacement. 4 days vs a month. How can you not see the difference there?

In addition he left to play for a foreign club. How can that be compared with Torres signing for a rival?

The point you make about the differences becoming maginfied from a fans perspective is a little patronising in my opinion. I don't think it's too much to expect a bit of loyalty and honesty from these footballers. I think we got that from Alonso. I don't think we got it from Fernando Torres. And somehow - SOMEHOW - Arn thinks the Alonso situation was worse??

[Neil Young]

It wasn't meant to be patronising - it was simply a reminder of how we're all biased in our own way.

I don't agree with your perspective here - the most important things to most professional footballers are, I think, money and trophies.

I don't think there is any problem about how long Torres left us - we got a replacement in and at £35m I'd be amazed if he wasn't first choice.

Regarding why people still feel for Alonso, I have no idea. Maybe it's because he didn't slag off the club after he left in the way Torres has done. Maybe people were more understanding of his situation. Maybe people are hurt more by Torres leaving. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance. Personally, I wish neither of them had gone.

As for the joining a rival thing, that's entirely down to your bias as a supporter.

You can hope for loyalty but I think it's a mistake to expect it from multimillionaire footballers. When it's there, we can be pleasantly surprised.

[kris90210]

It wasn't meant to be patronising - it was simply a reminder of how we're all biased in our own way.

I don't agree with your perspective here - the most important things to most professional footballers are, I think, money and trophies.

I don't think there is any problem about how long Torres left us - we got a replacement in and at £35m I'd be amazed if he wasn't first choice.

Regarding why people still feel for Alonso, I have no idea. Maybe it's because he didn't slag off the club after he left in the way Torres has done. Maybe people were more understanding of his situation. Maybe people are hurt more by Torres leaving. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance. Personally, I wish neither of them had gone.

As for the joining a rival thing, that's entirely down to your bias as a supporter.

You can hope for loyalty but I think it's a mistake to expect it from multimillionaire footballers. When it's there, we can be pleasantly surprised.

I'll take a look at that link in a bit. Cheers.

The trouble with Torres is that he was claiming to be one of those rare footballers who actually cares for the club he's playing for. He's said in the past that he wouldn't play for another English club.

Surprised that you feel that 4 days was enough time. We paid 35 million for Carroll. Everyone would agree that that is far too much money for a player who is relatively unproven in the Premiership. The reason we had to pay that premium is because we were left with no time to negotiate the price. Newcastle knew that they probably wouldn't have time to get in a replacement and for that reason alone, it will have driven the price up. We were always going to get screwed, but we needed a replacement so we were left with no choice.

I would agree with you that the most important thing to most footballers is money and trophies. Yet we have at least 1 at the club where that is not true: Steven Gerrard. Torres lead us to believe he might have been another. Evidently not.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here. I'm sticking to my original viewpoint that the Alonso situation was in no way, shape or form, WORSE than the situation Torres left us with. If you can't agree with me that it's better to have a month to identify and sign a player than 4 days then we're just not going to see eye to eye on this

[Fernandinho]

Surely this doesn't need to be a sticky anymore?

[Neil Young]

I'll take a look at that link in a bit. Cheers.

The trouble with Torres is that he was claiming to be one of those rare footballers who actually cares for the club he's playing for. He's said in the past that he wouldn't play for another English club.

Surprised that you feel that 4 days was enough time. We paid 35 million for Carroll. Everyone would agree that that is far too much money for a player who is relatively unproven in the Premiership. The reason we had to pay that premium is because we were left with no time to negotiate the price. Newcastle knew that they probably wouldn't have time to get in a replacement and for that reason alone, it will have driven the price up. We were always going to get screwed, but we needed a replacement so we were left with no choice.

I would agree with you that the most important thing to most footballers is money and trophies. Yet we have at least 1 at the club where that is not true: Steven Gerrard. Torres lead us to believe he might have been another. Evidently not.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here. I'm sticking to my original viewpoint that the Alonso situation was in no way, shape or form, WORSE than the situation Torres left us with. If you can't agree with me that it's better to have a month to identify and sign a player than 4 days then we're just not going to see eye to eye on this

Certainly I don't think Alonso left us in a worse situation. My point was there's not a lot in it and of course I'd agree a month is better than four days.

I just don't think it's all that significant. The club must have been planning for life after Torres, even if they didn't know for sure he was set on leaving until Dalglish tried talking him out of it on the 30th. We've supposedly been keeping tabs on Suarez for a couple of years or more so I'm sure Dalglish and co would have known who they had in mind as a replacement in attack - in fact, as I've said before, they would have been failing in their jobs if they haven't got contingencies for all sorts of different players leaving or getting injured or whatever.

As for the price, I don't think anyone believes £35m for Carroll is justified on his record. My point about the price is we got screwed because we really wanted him more than needed him (to paraphrase Wichita Lineman ). Also we had the money from the sale of Torres.

But if all we're really arguing about is by how much we overpaid then I don't really think it's all that important. Money in football is so ridiculous, it's hard to relate it to reality. And in a way we paid more for not replacing Alonso than we have for Torres's replacement.

For the record, I don't feel any antipathy to Alonso whatsoever.

As for Torres, yes, we did have the impression Torres wasn't a mercenary and recent events seem to have proven we were wrong. Some of it was our own fault - we wanted to believe it. But that's exactly why people now want to paint him in the worst possible light, as a traitor, a Judas, a c*nt. He's gone to Chelsea, not a foreign club, back home, and we thought he loved us. Check out the link.

[Drago]

Liverpool management unhappy with outspoken Benitez


Liverpool management are upset with former boss Rafa Benitez.

The Sunday Express says Liverpool have dubbed former boss Benitez ''a mischief maker'' for suggesting the club sold Fernando Torres to Chelsea on the cheap.

Benitez claimed Torres could have been sold last season for £70 million.

It's also suggested the Spaniard's hopes of returning to Anfield in the near future are a non-starter as far as club chiefs are concerned.

http://aggbot.com/link.php?id=12465181&r=tw&c=44

[Shaggy]

The Sunday Express

[Drago]

The Sunday Express

Very credible paper.