Jürgen Klopp

[danperkins]

I was listening to that stupid journo programme that's on Sky on Sunday morning and they were talking about an article by one of their peers and the jist was that the running distances and pressing was considerably lower than last season

Read the a similar article of other day. I don't get it, I was under the impression that was what Klopp (gegenpressing) was all about? Ya know working as hard as you can to get possession back, we categorically do not do that as much anymore.

[DeeTheDog]

Read the a similar article of other day. I don't get it, I was under the impression that was what Klopp (gegenpressing) was all about? Ya know working as hard as you can to get possession back, we categorically do not do that as much anymore.

You can't gengenpress teams that are not attacking. There is no space for us to run into, thus our running stats will be down also. It would be interesting to see the possession and territory stats along with these. Barring Arsenal, Hoffenheim and City I cannot think of one team that has not sat back deep and narrow, conceded possession and tried to hit us on the counter or with a set-piece.

[Fredo]

It's obvious that we are trying to evolve our game and adapt to different systems. **** the stats. They show whatever you want to see.

[calvoboy]

I was listening to that stupid journo programme that's on Sky on Sunday morning and they were talking about an article by one of their peers and the jist was that the running distances and pressing was considerably lower than last season

Would be interesting to compare like with like on that one - same players in the same games this year vs last year. For example Lallana being out (and Coutinho earlier) is a big loss for our pressing and running game, and we've also played more of the teams (so far) who sit back on the edge of their own box and hope for the best against us, rather than having a go. So it'd be interesting to see if it is just those factors (personnel and fixtures) combined, or whether we really have dropped off a bit compared to last year.

[gratziani]

I know we seem like we are in a bad place but **** me , if our wasteful forwards could put the ball in the net it would be so different.

You can't account for them misses in the last couple of games .

Plus i can't wait for the United and Spurs games , these are the ones we seem to play well in.

[Lecter]

You can't gengenpress teams that are not attacking. There is no space for us to run into, thus our running stats will be down also. It would be interesting to see the possession and territory stats along with these. Barring Arsenal, Hoffenheim and City I cannot think of one team that has not sat back deep and narrow, conceded possession and tried to hit us on the counter or with a set-piece.

Teams did exactly the same last year, yet we still had impressive pressing and running stats

[Lecter]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/incredible-liverpool-possession-stats-heart-13704653

[red g]

Interesting comparisons.......

After 75 Premier League games, Klopp has accumulated 136 points, while his predecessor Brendan Rodgers managed 142 points and Rafa Benitez claimed 137 points while in charge at the club.

Klopp, who took charge in October 2015, also trails Benitez and Rodgers in terms of Liverpool win percentages with Benitez managing 55%, Rodgers 50% and Klopp on 49.5%.

[Daniel 7]

Each manager's spells had completely different challenges though. If anything, Benitez arguably had it easiest with Liverpool being a bona fide top 4 club and little competition coming from elsewhere - Spurs were nowhere and City were a lower Prem team. Rodgers had the most outrageously talented footballer in Liverpool's Premier League history too. Klopp has been the only one with 100% owner backing - again arguably.

[labourRed]

Ah man, i like him and i hope we stick with him but he really shot himself in the foot in the summer (assuming he was holding out for a WC centre back and not board blockers).

He's a long-term great bet, but he may rue this summer more than we might.

[Daniel 7]

My jury has been out for 2 years and remains so now. I can't write him off and I can't wholeheartedly endorse him either. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I have noticed he's started to irritate me a bit recently, which is never a good sign

[red g]

Each manager's spells had completely different challenges though. If anything, Benitez arguably had it easiest with Liverpool being a bona fide top 4 club and little competition coming from elsewhere - Spurs were nowhere and City were a lower Prem team. Rodgers had the most outrageously talented footballer in Liverpool's Premier League history too. Klopp has been the only one with 100% owner backing - again arguably.

Also think the quality of the overall premier league has improved considerably.

[DeeTheDog]

Teams did exactly the same last year, yet we still had impressive pressing and running stats

If it comparison between this season and last the then the sample size is much smaller and as noted in my post, only Arsenal, City & Hoffenheim have offered an opportunity to press high so it is not a like-for-like comparison.

[danperkins]

You can't gengenpress teams that are not attacking. There is no space for us to run into, thus our running stats will be down also. It would be interesting to see the possession and territory stats along with these. Barring Arsenal, Hoffenheim and City I cannot think of one team that has not sat back deep and narrow, conceded possession and tried to hit us on the counter or with a set-piece.

Was saying it last season but this was the thing Klopp's whole ethos, until it was found out. You sit in tight, play the wings against and press our defence and it yields positive results. How many times was no Plan B mentioned, we are trying something different this season (whatever that is) but we do not have the personnel to pull it off successfully.

I do not think Klopp knows what way to play the current crop of players. Our goal keepers are not commanding, he seems to want to have CB's good on the ball and play a higher line. With the current guys there that is footballing suicide. He wants our fullbacks to get up the pitch as much as possible to provide the width but yet their delivery up there is awful & sure we played a CM at left back last season & we are currently playing a CB at right back this season so their not going to do much for you attacking wise.

That brings me to the midfield, one of the worst balanced midfields in the league, zero leadership aswell. How many times was it mentioned last season about Can, Henderson & Wini being all too similar or that Hendo is not captain material. So Henderson the epitome of a box to box midfielder has been asked to play a deep holding role. We have Can the epitome of a box to box midfielder, loves to burst forward. What role he has in the side now I have no idea & Wini well he is just there most of the time. Then there is the Firmino issue. Yet another player asked to play in a position that is not his natural role. He isn't clinical enough and we wonder why... because he is not a striker!!

So we had Milner a CM playing at LB all last season. Right lets definitely get a LB in this season so we don't have to do that again. Enter Robertson ...... wtf has happened there? No lets just play Moreno there. At RB, Clyne is injured and sure isn't suited to the attack role anyways. We have TAA a kid & we have Gomez who is a CB. Trent has been caught out defensively a few times so Gomez has been given the go ahead, he blatantly cannot play the attacking role .... because he's a CB!

3 guys in Hendo, Can & Wini playing in deeper role and then maybe one of them now and again bursting forward. Midfield is an absolute unbalanced mess. Firmino playing at Hoff behind striker, it's the reason why we bought him he was class in that role. A productive attacking midfielder... nah lets play him as a striker because he has great work rate and pressing form the front..... but no we do't press anymore so why is he still playing up there! Square pegs in round holes over and over and over and over.

I do not get what is trying to be achieved here and what an earth Klopp's thinking is in setting up the team, the players he picks & what way he wants this LFC side to play. Mane & Coutinho have gotten us out of serious holes last season & Salah is chipping in too this season. Their production has papered over some serious cracks IMO, we limped to that 4th place last season too. I have no doubts that at some stage our guys will start taking their chances better than what they have been (please ****) but there are so many issues in the side that I have no idea what the **** we are going to do.

P.S. We could very easy go out and play a blinded against the mancs and Spurs and then revert to type in the next one. Jekyll and Hyde team but over the long term I think we will have problems.

[DeeTheDog]

I share your frustrations with the season so far and the performance of the Manchester clubs only magnifies that; however, I do not think it is as bad as you and others make out. We are still creating enough chances to win games and although we have conceded some poor goals we don't concede that many attempts on our goal. Yes we should have more wins but we are not getting beat either with our first 11 apart from the City game with 10 men.

The summer transfer window was confusing but it was clear we had set targets and were determined to get them and were prepared to wait. Not bringing in someone instead of Van Dijk looks like it has backfired but we need to give it until the end of the season before drawing conclusions. We could get Van Djik in January after showing that he is fully rehabilitated at Southampton playing Premiership football rather in our under 23s .

I disagree on the midfield and personally think Henderson has played well these past few games. Several managers and team mates including Gerrard cannot that bad a judge on Henderson's captainship. You do not end up captain of England and Liverpool because you are the least worst option. Further, the composition of the midfield was changed to counter the deep lying defence with Coutinho moving deeper to the 8 role to create openings; however, that was thrown into the air with Barca saga over the summer and we've only recently had an opportunity to see this in action. Like most change it will take a while to adjust and with Keita coming in we are looking to improve it further. Like most things at Liverpool currently we need to give it more time.

We have discussed the Firmino issue in the Firmino thread but to reiterate he is not just there to press, he is there to create space for the other attacking players. He drops deep moving their CBs so that Mane and Salah can both attack the space. We were one of the top scorers last season and I can see no reason why we won’t be again.

As for limping to 4th place? I think you need to check the results at the end of last season. Whilst under pressure from United and Arsenal; two teams who is recent history have outperformed us whilst spending huge amounts of money we held firm keeping clean sheets and winning.