Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Craig_H]

Thats all very well and good Craig, but what if Carroll has already peaked?

Also, Carroll has had to get used to a new league and language too. In a way.

That's a bit of a pointless question because in over 20 years of watching football, i've never seen a player reach his peak at 23.

[Daniel 7]

That's a bit of a pointless question because in over 20 years of watching football, i've never seen a player reach his peak at 23.

DOB - 9 April 1975
1993–2001 Liverpool 236 (120)
2001–2003 Leeds United 30 (14)

DOB - 14 December 1979
1996–2004 Liverpool 216 (118)
2004–2005 Real Madrid 36 (13)
2005–2009 Newcastle United 71 (26)
2009– Manchester United 31 (5)

[baitman]

Apologies it this point has already been made - haven't read whole thread.

Just been watching Match of the Day, and specifically the Newcastle v Bolton match. I know a lot of people have talked about Carroll needing time to settle. Papiss Cisse hasn't needed time to settle and cost less than a third of the price of our number 9.

Newcastle are now undeniably better than us which is incredibly depressing!

agree he has been turd for us. torress went, and instead of buying a ready to go replacement, we bought carroll. there has been much chat about how he may develop into a decent player, as he has youth on his side. but spunking 35m on a prospect, and potential for the future just doesnt cut it im afraid. what is our team supposed to do in the mean time, while we wait for prospects to fulfil their potential

the money is irrelevant, IF carroll was performing

[Craig_H]

DOB - 9 April 1975
1993–2001 Liverpool 236 (120)
2001–2003 Leeds United 30 (14)

DOB - 14 December 1979
1996–2004 Liverpool 216 (118)
2004–2005 Real Madrid 36 (13)
2005–2009 Newcastle United 71 (26)
2009– Manchester United 31 (5)

How about someone who wasnt ruined by injury before 26?

[tbounce]

I actually don't disagree with a lot of that. I agree Torres has been terrible. I also agree Bellamy has had a good season. I also concur that Cisse had less pressure on his shoulders upon joining.

Cisse is 26 (dob - 3/6/85) Carroll is 23 (dob 6/1/89)

I appreciate 3 years of development can count for a lot. However, Cisse has scored more Premier League goals in 10 games than Carroll has in 37 and that's the only point I'm making in terms of comparing the 2.

I do accept it's not Carroll's fault he cost £35 million, but nor is it Torres' fault he cost £50 million and he is roundly mocked.

[cream]

agree he has been turd for us. torress went, and instead of buying a ready to go replacement, we bought carroll. there has been much chat about how he may develop into a decent player, as he has youth on his side. but spunking 35m on a prospect, and potential for the future just doesnt cut it im afraid. what is our team supposed to do in the mean time, while we wait for prospects to fulfil their potential

the money is irrelevant, IF carroll was performing

Exactly. Spunking large amounts of cash on **** players can ruin clubs.

[Craig_H]

agree he has been turd for us. torress went, and instead of buying a ready to go replacement, we bought carroll. there has been much chat about how he may develop into a decent player, as he has youth on his side. but spunking 35m on a prospect, and potential for the future just doesnt cut it im afraid. what is our team supposed to do in the mean time, while we wait for prospects to fulfil their potential

the money is irrelevant, IF carroll was performing

So whose fault is it that we spunked £35m on him? Carroll's?

[Craig_H]

I actually don't disagree with a lot of that. I agree Torres has been terrible. I also agree Bellamy has had a good season. I also concur that Cisse had less pressure on his shoulders upon joining.

Cisse is 26 (dob - 3/6/85) Carroll is 23 (dob 6/1/89)

I appreciate 3 years of development can count for a lot. However, Cisse has scored more Premier League goals in 10 games than Carroll has in 37 and that's the only point I'm making in terms of comparing the 2.

I do accept it's not Carroll's fault he cost £35 million, but nor is it Torres' fault he cost £50 million and he is roundly mocked.

Well of course, if you neglect other points and just use the one that strengthens your case, then yeah, your argument will look flawless.

Torres is roundly mocked, he isnt one of our players. Bitters and mancs do enough of a job of mocking and abusing our players, i dont see what part of a supporter's remit involves doing the same to their own.

[tbounce]

My point exactly - agree completely mate

[Daniel 7]

@ Craig

Well if you have to change the criteria after I've given a couple of examples...

The extent of the Fowler injuries weren't known until a long time afterwards - I remember he said in his autobiog that he never felt he was the same player after a bad ankle injury early on in his career.

My point stands, we don't know that the injuries Carroll has undoubtedly suffered have contributed to him being a huge let down. It might be that he won't be the same player he was at Newcastle. It might be he peaked in that first 6 months of last season.

[tbounce]

Ok - do you think Carroll has been a good signing?

[Craig_H]

@ Craig

Well if you have to change the criteria after I've given a couple of examples...

The extent of the Fowler injuries weren't known until a long time afterwards - I remember he said in his autobiog that he never felt he was the same player after a bad ankle injury early on in his career.

My point stands, we don't know that the injuries Carroll has undoubtedly suffered have contributed to him being a huge let down. It might be that he won't be the same player he was at Newcastle. It might be he peaked in that first 6 months of last season.

I didnt 'change the criteria', you just gave two very specific examples - of course a player's peak is going to be at a young age if he's destroyed by injuries before his mid 20s That's kind of obvious.

You can say it might be that Carroll peaked last season and it's impossible to prove or disprove that just now, but all evidence suggests it's extremely rare that a player's 'peak' comes at the age of 22, so i'm going with the percentages on this one as it seems the most logical way to go about it.

[Craig_H]

Ok - do you think Carroll has been a good signing?

Not thus far, no. For various reasons, some of which are his fault and others not. The former get counted, the latter ignored.

I also dont write people off after a year.

Moreover though, good signing or not, i dont agree with abusing and mocking our own. It leaves a very sour taste. What next, booing him at games?

Just cant relate that to my idea of support, that's all.

[baitman]

So whose fault is it that we spunked £35m on him? Carroll's?

its not carrolls fault he cost 35m.
its carrolls fault he is so ****, though. we have seen him do it for newcastle, and in odd games for us, but its clearly apparent that he just aint arsed trying. that is his fault.
stop trying to defend him like he is your first born child, or your his agent.

[Baracus]

Carroll has not even started 6 games on the trott.

Has he deserved to Start at least 6 games on the trott. YES.

Is he good enough to play in our current set up. YES.

You can't lay the shoulder of blame on him when he does not even get a fair run in the team.

Bunch of moaning *******s. Never satisfied even when we win.