Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Exiled_red]

Didn't RVP also start fairly slow?

I can't really remember, I know Bergkamp did but that's going back a while

[kris90210]

You could argue that Carroll has been fairly unlucky as well as hes hit the woodwork countless times also

We shall see about Suarez being less selfish

I have my doubts mind, its ingrained in him imo

It's not just his goal return that's the problem though. Obviously it would help if he was scoring goals, but his all-round play has been shocking. He should be able to control and pass a football regardless of the service he's getting.

That's the difference between him and Suarez. Obviously if you only look at the goals scored then you wouldn't think there was too much difference between the players, but you've only got to watch them both play to see that Suarez has been a lot, lot better.

[Lecter]

Journos are really starting to piss me off, not only are they now trying to govern how we react to FA disciplinairy cases they are now trying to dictate who we buy and sell

Who are they to do this?

Its also starting to really piss me off how they keep dragging up Carrolls drinking habits when there is little or no ****ing evidence that hes still doing this

Do they have a ****ing journo parked outside his house monitoring him every night to see if hes staying in or not?

I've just remembered who this Lawton is and now realise I shouldnt have even bothered reading that article

[Lecter]

It's not just his goal return that's the problem though. Obviously it would help if he was scoring goals, but his all-round play has been shocking. He should be able to control and pass a football regardless of the service he's getting.

That's the difference between him and Suarez. Obviously if you only look at the goals scored then you wouldn't think there was too much difference between the players, but you've only got to watch them both play to see that Suarez has been a lot, lot better.

Suarez is a better player, there is no argument in that

Its just you cant make excuses for Suarez and not give those same excuses for Carroll

Both have missed EASY chances, both have hit the woodwork countless times

IF Carroll had the luck you are suggesting giving to Suarez he could have over double figures in goals (comfortably) that would greatly affect how Carroll would be viewed (imo)

The fact is neither Carroll NOR Suarez have been productive enough in real terms

[kris90210]

Suarez is a better player, there is no argument in that

Its just you cant make excuses for Suarez and not give those same excuses for Carroll

Both have missed EASY chances, both have hit the woodwork countless times

IF Carroll had the luck you are suggesting giving to Suarez he could have over double figures in goals (comfortably) that would greatly affect how Carroll would be viewed (imo)

The fact is neither Carroll NOR Suarez have been productive enough in real terms

I'm not making excuses for Suarez. With or without the goals, he has been excellent. Would I rather he scored more goals? Of course!

Suarez doesn't need excuses made for him, and that's the difference between his LFC career and Carroll's, in a nutshell.

[Darkon]

Crouch is perhaps the best example here of a striker that started incredibly slow but turned out a good signing.

And what do the journo expect, that Kenny comes out and say's he is not wanted, when he has to play him? A manager have to support his players untill they are no longer here. It would be suicide to start blasting your own players publically.

[Lecter]

I'm not making excuses for Suarez. With or without the goals, he has been excellent. Would I rather he scored more goals? Of course!

Suarez doesn't need excuses made for him, and that's the difference between his LFC career and Carroll's, in a nutshell.

But you have been making excuses for him

He's been fairly unlucky with hitting the woodwork this season

Perhaps his end product is affected because of the team mates around him

If he had Gerrard and a good finisher in the same team I'm sure he would be less selfish. Players like Suarez flourish when surrounded by other great players

Thats the crux of it for me, people who criticise Carroll have to apply the same thing to Suarez when he fails at those same things. Equally when you are making excuses for Suarez you have to give those same excuses to Carroll

I'm not in anyway saying that Carroll is brilliant or even on the same level as Suarez but some of the critique is VERY one sided, particularly when people often excuse Suarez for the same things they slam Carroll for

For me Suarez's game isnt just lacking goals, it also lacks an end product

For all his skill and attacking threat he frustrates the ****ing life out of me

His decision making is woeful in front of goal as well as in possession. He blasts the ball when often all it needs doing is placing in the net, he tries to shoot when invariably he should pass to a free player

I'm not just picking on Suarez to me its half a dozen players whose general decision making is shocking (in terms of shooting, passing, crossing etc..) and yet despite this we are still in the top few for creating chances

Jeez if we had players with good decision making we'd be that good we could plait jam

[kris90210]

Crouch is perhaps the best example here of a striker that started incredibly slow but turned out a good signing.

And what do the journo expect, that Kenny comes out and say's he is not wanted, when he has to play him? A manager have to support his players untill they are no longer here. It would be suicide to start blasting your own players publically.

But Crouch was playing well - he was holding the ball up. Winning balls in the air. His distribution was good. His all-round game was good. With Carroll we're not getting anything.

I don't think we should get rid of him just yet though. We'd take a huge loss and he's clearly capable of playing much better than he has done. And there's always the chance something clicks for him and he becomes the player he's capable of being. We need another striker though - someone to compete with him and take the pressure off. Maybe that's exactly what he needs.

[Lecter]

But Crouch was playing well - he was holding the ball up. Winning balls in the air. His distribution was good. His all-round game was good. With Carroll we're not getting anything.

I don't think we should get rid of him just yet though. We'd take a huge loss and he's clearly capable of playing much better than he has done. And there's always the chance something clicks for him and he becomes the player he's capable of being. We need another striker though - someone to compete with him and take the pressure off. Maybe that's exactly what he needs.

I'd agree with this

Both the points about Crouch and the points about Carroll and a new striker

We need a striker not just because of Carroll but also because of the numerous other players that have failed to hit the back of the net on a regular basis

I also reckon we need a midfielder/attacking player who offers more pace and is more direct

At times we are too slow in our build up

[kris90210]

But you have been making excuses for him

He's been fairly unlucky with hitting the woodwork this season

Perhaps his end product is affected because of the team mates around him

If he had Gerrard and a good finisher in the same team I'm sure he would be less selfish. Players like Suarez flourish when surrounded by other great players

Thats the crux of it for me, people who criticise Carroll have to apply the same thing to Suarez when he fails at those same things. Equally when you are making excuses for Suarez you have to give those same excuses to Carroll

I'm not in anyway saying that Carroll is brilliant or even on the same level as Suarez but some of the critique is VERY one sided, particularly when people often excuse Suarez for the same things they slam Carroll for

For me Suarez's game isnt just lacking goals, it also lacks an end product

For all his skill and attacking threat he frustrates the ****ing life out of me

His decision making is woeful in front of goal as well as in possession. He blasts the ball when often all it needs doing is placing in the net, he tries to shoot when invariably he should pass to a free player

I'm not just picking on Suarez to me its half a dozen players whose general decision making is shocking (in terms of shooting, passing, crossing etc..) and yet despite this we are still in the top few for creating chances

Jeez if we had players with good decision making we'd be that good we could plait jam

That was me responding to your criticisms - you can take or leave them. Take those 'excuses' away and he's still been fantastic as far as I'm concerned. Saying that, of course his finishing can improve, as can his end product - no excuses offered. If they don't, will he still be a fabulous player for us? Yes, without a doubt.

He has the one thing that no one else really has since Garcia left - gives that little bit of magic that excites people.

I see what you're saying regarding parity when judging Carroll and Suarez. And in principle you're right. But there are other factors to consider when judging the, which I think people ARE taking into account.

Finishing
Both players can improve on this front, although I would say scoring is Andy's primary role in the team. You could argue that Carroll hasn't had the best service, which is fair enough. He's also been a bit unfortunate with hitting the woodwork and keepers making world class saves.

Creativity
This is Suarez's forte, while we're getting next to nothing from Carroll in this department, while Suarez is always looking to make things happen - with success as well. Can Suarez improve his end product? For sure, but he's already doing a good job in my opinion.

Work rate
Even if playing poorly, we all love a player who works hard. Suarez works his ****ing socks off whenever he is on the pitch. Can you say the same for Carroll? No, I don't think you can. He looks laboured. His attempts at closing down defenders look more of a token effort than anything else.

Teamwork
Suarez is constantly buzzing about, looking to link up with players. The play rarely breaks up when he is possession, despite him being such an attacking, flair type player. By contrast, Carroll's touch has been dreadful. His passing is sloppy. And his hold up play has been poor for a player of his size and strength. Carroll has even been fairly poor in the air - apparently his greatest strength! I've seen him regularly beaten in the air by smaller defenders.

Consistency
Both players have been at the club for a similar period now, and I think both have played enough for us to appreciate the consistency of their performances. Obviously, Carroll has had to come back from an injury, but he's been pretty much injury free this season, which should be enough time for him to build some form. For me, the main reason he's not started more games is that his performances (in games, and presumably training) have not warranted a starting place. Suarez has been superb right from the get go. He rushed back from holiday in the Summer to start the season with us and still didn't show any signs of fatigue. He has has a minor blip (by his own high standards) for the past few games, but in general he has shown remarkable consistancy for a flair player.

So that's me judging both players on the same standards and Suarez easily comes out on top.

[Keith]

For me Suarez's game isnt just lacking goals, it also lacks an end product

Couldn't agree less - I see Suarez as our most creative player

I also reckon we need a midfielder/attacking player who offers more pace and is more direct

At times we are too slow in our build up

And couldn't agree more

[kris90210]

I'd agree with this

Both the points about Crouch and the points about Carroll and a new striker

We need a striker not just because of Carroll but also because of the numerous other players that have failed to hit the back of the net on a regular basis

I also reckon we need a midfielder/attacking player who offers more pace and is more direct

At times we are too slow in our build up

Totally agree with all of that

[Keith]

That was me responding to your criticisms - you can take or leave them. Take those 'excuses' away and he's still been fantastic as far as I'm concerned. Saying that, of course his finishing can improve, as can his end product - no excuses offered. If they don't, will he still be a fabulous player for us? Yes, without a doubt.

He has the one thing that no one else really has since Garcia left - gives that little bit of magic that excites people.

I see what you're saying regarding parity when judging Carroll and Suarez. And in principle you're right. But there are other factors to consider when judging the, which I think people ARE taking into account.

Finishing
Both players can improve on this front, although I would say scoring is Andy's primary role in the team. You could argue that Carroll hasn't had the best service, which is fair enough. He's also been a bit unfortunate with hitting the woodwork and keepers making world class saves.

Creativity
This is Suarez's forte, while we're getting next to nothing from Carroll in this department, while Suarez is always looking to make things happen - with success as well. Can Suarez improve his end product? For sure, but he's already doing a good job in my opinion.

Work rate
Even if playing poorly, we all love a player who works hard. Suarez works his ****ing socks off whenever he is on the pitch. Can you say the same for Carroll? No, I don't think you can. He looks laboured. His attempts at closing down defenders look more of a token effort than anything else.

Teamwork
Suarez is constantly buzzing about, looking to link up with players. The play rarely breaks up when he is possession, despite him being such an attacking, flair type player. By contrast, Carroll's touch has been dreadful. His passing is sloppy. And his hold up play has been poor for a player of his size and strength. Carroll has even been fairly poor in the air - apparently his greatest strength! I've seen him regularly beaten in the air by smaller defenders.

Consistency
Both players have been at the club for a similar period now, and I think both have played enough for us to appreciate the consistency of their performances. Obviously, Carroll has had to come back from an injury, but he's been pretty much injury free this season, which should be enough time for him to build some form. For me, the main reason he's not started more games is that his performances (in games, and presumably training) have not warranted a starting place. Suarez has been superb right from the get go. He rushed back from holiday in the Summer to start the season with us and still didn't show any signs of fatigue. He has has a minor blip (by his own high standards) for the past few games, but in general he has shown remarkable consistancy for a flair player.

So that's me judging both players on the same standards and Suarez easily comes out on top.

Kris 1, Lecter 0?

Come on Lecter

[Alex]

Cant argue with Kris's logic there.

[Mostar]

It's not just his goal return that's the problem though. Obviously it would help if he was scoring goals, but his all-round play has been shocking. He should be able to control and pass a football regardless of the service he's getting.

That's the difference between him and Suarez. Obviously if you only look at the goals scored then you wouldn't think there was too much difference between the players, but you've only got to watch them both play to see that Suarez has been a lot, lot better.

I think Lecter is correct that in terms of production Suarez's goal scoring record is not the greatest. Conversion rate of 8% is not good and that needs to improve.

That said, I do agree with you that Suarez is much more complete player and in terms of skills he is miles ahead of Carroll.

His game has very few holes and I certainly cannot say the same for Carroll.