Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[Exiled_red]

I read a post earlier that prompted my reply (which I write in Outlook BTW now to make it look like I’m working ). By the time I logged back in to post, I couldn’t find it so just quoted you after reading that particular line. Having read the full thing in context I realised that wasn’t the point you were making which was why I pointed out that I was replying in general to those who do want us to build our entire team around Carroll.

No worries

I just thought on re-reading my post that I wasn't to clear, so thought I'd add to it.

[Big-Red-Ed]

To be simplistic here, football is all about having the options to cope with different oppositions etc. Carroll was bought to give us the big man little man combo option. He needs genuine wingers and a more creative midfielder and we will need to strengthen in these areas but good players in these areas will enhance what we already have also eg. the suarez/kuyt option.

All good teams have options like these. Take the scum. Sometimes berba plays with rooney, sometimes hernandez plays.

Carroll got plenty of goals with a struggling newly promoted team and will definitely get more for us when fit and fully integrated.

I am sure Kenny knows what he is doing.

[red g]

Exactly. Drogba was a late bloomer (with wiltshire ham and pickle) and Carroll has the potential to be everything Drogba is. Clearly there is some way to go but he is being rubbished after a handful of games.

When Drogba was Carrolls age he had just signed for guingamp for £80,000 thats hardly a lot of bread when you consider Carroll has just gone for 35million!!!

[Daniel 7]

Just because he's big, strong and has a vicious shot on him doesn't mean he'll follow the same career trajectory as Drogba! You could list plenty of examples of young players showing promise who never fulfil it as well, it means nothing.

Big, strong, brilliant in the air, able to hold off defenders to bring others into play with knockdowns, needs delivery from wide areas... that kind of defines Duncan Ferguson's whole career.

Fed up of the Carroll / Drogba analogy.

Arn - in my opinion it is highly unlikely we're going to get Aguero, which kind of defeats the point you were trying to make. I also don't think Carroll is ever going to have the mobility to be the focal point of a 433 - I base this on the slow motion performances I saw from him as a Newcastle player.

[Rowan]

i dont think we will build a team around Carroll as such but more likely buy players that help us get more out of him. This will give us options.

imagine having the options up front and the problems it will cause the opposition when working how to set up against us?

and this is the exact issue I have with the Man City project. You look at Kenny and DC and they are looking at players who can fit in to an expensive attacking outfit and will enable us to switch between multiple formations during and between games.

City on the other hand are just buying players with no thought to how to accommodate them. I think Spurs are just as bad if not worse.

[kris90210]

( I’ve quoted the wrong post here, but basically I’m replying to the general consensus that we won’t get the best from AC unless we specifically buy the players needed to compliment his aerial ability.)

I’ve mentioned it before, but building a team around Andy Carroll just doesn’t sit well with me. I can understand why Barca would do it with Messi, why you would do it with Ronaldo, even Stevie G, but I’m not comfortable with the idea of building our team around the potential of AC.

It also makes me wonder what happens if we buy all these players, geared to get the best out of Carroll and he gets injured. Do we have to buy another forward of similar build to step in, do we play a forward not suited to the role as we were forced to do when Torres got injured, or do we have to completely change our system again?

I’m not having a go at Carroll and will obviously reserve judgement until next year but spending £35m on potential and maybe another £30m or so to help fulfil this potential is a big risk IMO.

In saying that, I’ve no reason to believe Kenny is planning this, it’s others that keep mentioning that our summer shopping basket will revolve around Carroll and we’ll change our style to suit him. The way I see it is the players and positions we have been linked with are problem areas that would need addressing anyway with or without Andy Carroll in the squad. Obviously one would expect a lot more productivity from crosses with a more natural LB and LW in the team, but I hope this doesn’t come at the expense of Suarez who obviously prefers the ball at his feet. I don’t think Kenny would be foolish enough to rely upon and build our team around one player, but if he was then that player for me would have to be our No.7.

If you look at what we will no doubt do in an effort to cater to Carroll's strengths, I don't think you can take any negatives from it. Building the team around Carroll will mean us playing with wingers who can take on and beat players. You know, how can that be a bad thing? Whether Carroll is in the side or not, having effective wingers will help relieve pressure and increase space for every other player on the pitch.

In a nutshell, as far as I can tell, building a team around Andy Carroll = playing with effective wingers. That's a good philosophy in my book!

[RichC]

[QUOTE=kris90210;1974634]
In a nutshell, as far as I can tell, building a team around Andy Carroll = playing with effective wingers. That's a good philosophy in my book![/QUOTE]



for years we've struggled with decent outlets down the flanks, all top sides have these types of players, not only will it help Carroll but create space for others i.e. Suarez, Kuyt, Gerrard & Merieles for example.

[RedReet]

and this is the exact issue I have with the Man City project. You look at Kenny and DC and they are looking at players who can fit in to an expensive attacking outfit and will enable us to switch between multiple formations during and between games.

City on the other hand are just buying players with no thought to how to accommodate them. I think Spurs are just as bad if not worse.

I actually don’t see how Carroll enables us to do that, if anything it inhibits us as I can’t really see Carroll playing any role successfully other than a central target man/CF.

If you look at what we will no doubt do in an effort to cater to Carroll's strengths, I don't think you can take any negatives from it. Building the team around Carroll will mean us playing with wingers who can take on and beat players. You know, how can that be a bad thing? Whether Carroll is in the side or not, having effective wingers will help relieve pressure and increase space for every other player on the pitch.

In a nutshell, as far as I can tell, building a team around Andy Carroll = playing with effective wingers. That's a good philosophy in my book!

But likewise, how can I see it as a positive if I don’t know who these wingers are? Are these wingers gonna leave our FB’s exposed, are they gonna chip in with many goals? It’s all well and good saying wingers will create more space, but so too does clever movement that you get from the likes of Kuyt, Maxi, Suarez and even Meireles. I also don’t know why so many people assume it will guarantee success when most teams who actually have wingers in their squad play them on the opposite side so they can cut it, which obviously wouldn't play to Carroll's strengths. Then you have arguably the greatest football team ever, who are dominating world football without the use of them. I suppose a case could be made for United this year as they have generally played with wingers which is unusual in the modern game, but most people have also conceded that they are probably the worst team ever to win the Premiership. Gareth Bale was also voted player of the season and definitely has to be classed as an ‘effective winger’, but as exciting as he’s been at times, his stats pale in comparison to Kuyt’s.

Look, don’t get me wrong, we are obviously craving for a quality wide player with a bit of pace and good delivery. Signing a couple of wingers will definitely improve our squad, as will a CB, LB etc. Fitting 2 new wingers into the starting 11, amending our system to suit them and Carroll, hoping they settle and hoping they link with Suarez as well as Kuyt and Maxi have is a big ask IMO, and not necessarily the definite blueprint for success that so many would have you believe.

[RedReet]

Another problem I have with playing Carroll and two wingers is it comes at the expense of better, more proven players IMO. IF we play a 442, does Gerrard play as one of the 2 CM’s? If we play a 433, is Suarez shunted out left where he has less impact and is this new winger going to be more productive than Kuyt?

I know it’s all about options, horses for courses etc., but what would be our strongest 11if we signed 2 new wingers?

[elrichio86]

Another problem I have with playing Carroll and two wingers is it comes at the expense of better, more proven players IMO. IF we play a 442, does Gerrard play as one of the 2 CM’s? If we play a 433, is Suarez shunted out left where he has less impact and is this new winger going to be more productive than Kuyt?
I know it’s all about options, horses for courses etc., but what would be our strongest 11if we signed 2 new wingers?

A 433 doesn't really include wingers really. At least not in the traditional image of a player hugging the touchline.

Suarez and Kuyt are both ideal for these "wide" positions in a 433 IMO.

[The Birdman]

We won't play a set 'system' or formation.
If any Liverpool fan learns one thing from having Dalglish as manager (first spell and again now) its that systems vary from game to game are are always 100% fluid within the game.
In my opinion what we will see next season is 4 at the back, at least 1 holding/defensive midfielder and at least 1 focal point up front.

The 4 players to make up the team (Pepe as well obviously) will be fluid and interchange positions.
Where they play and what they do (stay wide, drift inside etc...) will all depend on who we sign, who we have playing in that game and who we are playing against.

[Exiled_red]

Another problem I have with playing Carroll and two wingers is it comes at the expense of better, more proven players IMO. IF we play a 442, does Gerrard play as one of the 2 CM’s? If we play a 433, is Suarez shunted out left where he has less impact and is this new winger going to be more productive than Kuyt?

I know it’s all about options, horses for courses etc., but what would be our strongest 11if we signed 2 new wingers?

I don't think we'll play a 4-4-2 with two out and out wingers, if we go 4-4-2 I think we'd play one winger probably wide left and a narrow right hand sided player possibly Gerrard / Kuyt, with Johnson providing width from full back.

If we go with a front 3 I would imagine it will be very fluid with 3 from Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt and new winger(s) all being given alot of freedom rather than fixed positions/sides.

I don't think whatever system we play will see us play with 2 out and out wingers, we may sign two but I would imagibne one would be first choice and the other largely a backup

[The_weatherman]

We won't play a set 'system' or formation.
If any Liverpool fan learns one thing from having Dalglish as manager (first spell and again now) its that systems vary from game to game are are always 100% fluid within the game.
In my opinion what we will see next season is 4 at the back, at least 1 holding/defensive midfielder and at least 1 focal point up front.

The 4 players to make up the team (Pepe as well obviously) will be fluid and interchange positions.Where they play and what they do (stay wide, drift inside etc...) will all depend on who we sign, who we have playing in that game and who we are playing against.

I don't know, I think we should just keep Pepe in goal and let the outfield players interchange positions

[kris90210]

Another problem I have with playing Carroll and two wingers is it comes at the expense of better, more proven players IMO. IF we play a 442, does Gerrard play as one of the 2 CM’s? If we play a 433, is Suarez shunted out left where he has less impact and is this new winger going to be more productive than Kuyt?

I know it’s all about options, horses for courses etc., but what would be our strongest 11if we signed 2 new wingers?

Not necessarily. With a decent winger (or two!), we would have any number of permutations as far as formations / player positions go.

In a 4-3-3, I imagine it would look something like this:


----------------Carroll-------------------
Winger----------------------------Winger
----------------Suarez-------------------
--------Gerrard-----------Lucas----------

And what's more, Gerrard could rotate into a more attacking role. Suarez and the wingers could rotate. The potential movement of the attack would be very difficult for a lot of teams to deal with. We could have our own Barca-style carousel.

And while you point out that Bale's stats are inferior to Kuyt's, does that mean you wouldn't swap the two? I don't think the stats really do Bale justice.

[Mattshark]

To be simplistic here, football is all about having the options to cope with different oppositions etc. Carroll was bought to give us the big man little man combo option. He needs genuine wingers and a more creative midfielder and we will need to strengthen in these areas but good players in these areas will enhance what we already have also eg. the suarez/kuyt option.

All good teams have options like these. Take the scum. Sometimes berba plays with rooney, sometimes hernandez plays.

Carroll got plenty of goals with a struggling newly promoted team and will definitely get more for us when fit and fully integrated.

I am sure Kenny knows what he is doing.

It doesn't work like that. There are many other factors apart from quality of players around you that affect scoring rate. For a start with he'd have got more space at other sides than with us. I doubt he'd face as many teams parking a bus.